Caranddriver: More on the GT-R's real horsepower

[JT87]

eurohazard:
I agree that bringing up different cars can change up the numbers a bit, but the head to head comparison of the 911 and GT-R does bring the story a bit closer together. An AWD car with a viscous coupling system and one full length shaft vs an AWD system with torque vectoring and two full shafts end up with the same hp difference they started with. It just doesn't make sense that the GT-R is 'putting out over 500' when there isn't any noise of the 911 being underrated (by 30+hp anyways), or the Z06 for that matter. The 20% figure tended to come from automatic cars, where the torque converter sucked back some power. DSG type transmissions as well, tend to be just as efficient (though not as strong) as single layshaft manuals. Either way, I'm positive the number isn't 20% (I'll try and find the link to where the Nissan engineer said it was under 15%, something about the gear cut, and lubricant, which could also relate to the lower capacity of the transmission).

ptviperz:
A full time AWD system (like a WRX or the like; a viscous centre diff, or a simple clutch centre) will have a ton of drag on the driveline that takes away power. However, Nissan's engineers have done a very good job of essentially making the vehicle drive each possible wheel as best as possible that they essentially make the car a RWD car when the tires grip and it is in a straight line. But it doesn't explain why the 911 is still faster, when it has a less 'techy' all wheel drive system and similar power.

Either way, it's becoming a golden age of performance. Competition breeds it. Customers demand it. And an enthusiast would be nuts to deny any of the cars above. I just don't when certain things are taken as fact .

[a_v_s]

I'm not sure the GT-R is going to be the bang-for-the-buck it's all cracked up to be... As much as I love the GT-R (and the Z06 by the way)... I was talking to a friend that was going to buy a GT-R.. He said the dealer in Chicago wants MSRP + 40 grand. He said they wouldn't let it go for less than $110,000.... He basically told the dealer to screw off, and is going to buy a 911 Turbo instead.

[big swede]

Originally Posted by a_v_s

I'm not sure the GT-R is going to be the bang-for-the-buck it's all cracked up to be... As much as I love the GT-R (and the Z06 by the way)... I was talking to a friend that was going to buy a GT-R.. He said the dealer in Chicago wants MSRP + 40 grand. He said they wouldn't let it go for less than $110,000.... He basically told the dealer to screw off, and is going to buy a 911 Turbo instead.

I don’t know why people still get worked up over dealers trying to gouge you over a hot new car because it has been happening since the first hot new car came out and it will continue to happen until the last hot new car is ever made. The GT-R is just like any other car that the dealer thinks is so desireable they can gouge you with. Just wait a few months and the price will come down.

Pontiac tried the same thing with the GTO. Mazda used to get by with doing it to the Miata, Chrysler is doing it with the Challenger, Chevy will do it with the Camaro, yadda yadda.

You have to be buying these cars for the right reason and you won’t be affected. That reason would be to impress yourself instead of your neighbors.

[redTT]

No one wants to be ripped off and should not be ripped off in the tune of $40k.

A_V_S has a right to complain and should complain, it doesnt matter the type of car.

[eurohazard]

There's a reason dealerships are called stealerships. It's not right, but this is America...capitalism at its finest (or worst). Let the gimps with too much money to blow get the first and second batch of X-car (in this case GT-R)....prices will back to MSRP.

[JT87]

Originally Posted by redTT

No one wants to be ripped off and should not be ripped off in the tune of $40k.

A_V_S has a right to complain and should complain, it doesnt matter the type of car.

I don't like getting ripped off either, but a company doesn't have to sell at MSRP (keyword is 'suggested'). Rewards come for those who wait. People complained about GTO's being marked up at introduction, but then you could get an '06 for under 25k during 2007 (I'm sure there are still a few auto cars sitting around dealerships now too). But if you want to be the first on the block with one, be prepared to pay up for the 'privilege' of doing so.

[big swede]

Originally Posted by redTT

No one wants to be ripped off and should not be ripped off in the tune of $40k.

A_V_S has a right to complain and should complain, it doesnt matter the type of car.

So wait a couple of months to buy it so you can enjoy it instead of buying it to be the first on your block to impress your neighbors, problem solved. Not an issue, the only people that ever complain are the people with no intention of buying one.

[a_v_s]

I'm not complaining per se, I'm just saying this car might not be the bargain Nissan is saying it is because of the stealerships. At a minimum I'm hoping the dealers don't screw it up for those of us that do want one by making Nissan think the car is a flop because of cars sitting on dealer lots for extended times.

Ilm sure some will pay through the nose to say they have one, but I doubt these will fly off lots for $110,000. For that kinda money i'd want better dealer service than what you get at a typical Nissan dealer. Hell you can get a used lambo for that price, and that has more cachet than nissan ever will.

reminds me of the Wii Fit. My wife wanted one, but everyone was sold out. There were tons on ebay, but they wanted $400 for just the game, when it retails for $90. I noticed that none of those e-bay auctions had any bids... I got the wii fit for $89 from a local shop after calling everyday and rushing in when they got their meager shipment.

[RamJet502]

I just saw a white GT-R on the road here in Vegas. The styling is definitely aggressive.

[eurohazard]

Oh Neo, you should have taken the blue pill. So Nissan is well known for this kind of trickery huh? When? I can't wait for examples!

You are reading and writing what you want. You fail to mention that Nissan TOLD Car and Driver that they had a preproduction test mule! And Car and Driver printed that too. There was no "trying to get accross", or "implication"....it was black and white.

It's a damn shame really that we auto fanatics are even squabling about this. I would bet $$$ every major magaziine was begging Nissan to let them test drive something (even a test mule) so they could have a great headlining story. That is more likely of a scenario than Nissan actively deceiving the press IMHO.

[mbukukanyau]

Originally Posted by Neo Anderson

I think what Car and Driver was trying to get across was that Nissan was sending the first GT-R's out to the journalists, and that these first cars were actually highly modified and suspect. The implication is that the common GT-R that the GT-R owner will likely receive will be the more normal, 'de-tuned', 480 horsepower car that's on the spec-sheet and not the 530+ cars that the critics like Top Gear and Car and Driver were receiving.

This is how Nissan works. They work by deception and silly games to promote their products. They modify their very first cars--the cars that only the critics will get, knowing full well the critics will yell, "Boy, this new GT-R is a ringer! It outperforms everything in its class, and with only 480 horsepower. Heck a car like the Vette Z06 is not only lighter, but also more powerful, but the GT-R runs rings around it. The GT-R is mechanical wizardry. How did Nissan do it?!"
Then only later do we learn the truth: Nissan sent not 480 horsepower GT-R's to the critics, but 530+ horsepower cars to the critics. No wonder why the 480 hp GT-R went 7:38 around the Nurburgring--it wasn't a 480 hp GT-R, but a 530+ GT-R that went 7:38! Trickery and deception at it's highest, folks!

We know that with Chevrolet, that the Corvette buyer will get a 3,100 pound car that generates 505/495, each and every time! Corvette relies on sophisticated engineering and technology to perform as well as it does. Nissan uses deception and trickery. I said at the outset I'd buy a Vette over a GT-R, and I meant it because I knew there was something fishy about the GT-R numbers.

I was right all along!

That explains why that GT-R on you tube could not keep up with Z0-6

[redTT]

Originally Posted by eurohazard

Oh Neo, you should have taken the blue pill. So Nissan is well known for this kind of trickery huh? When? I can't wait for examples!

You are reading and writing what you want. You fail to mention that Nissan TOLD Car and Driver that they had a preproduction test mule! And Car and Driver printed that too. There was no "trying to get accross", or "implication"....it was black and white.

It's a damn shame really that we auto fanatics are even squabling about this. I would bet $$$ every major magaziine was begging Nissan to let them test drive something (even a test mule) so they could have a great headlining story. That is more likely of a scenario than Nissan actively deceiving the press IMHO.

One example is the 7:59 Nurburgring recorded by the R33 GTR. A stock production car was retested achieving only a high 8:20's, even using the same driver as the record run didnt improve the time. European magazines were never able to run remotely close to 7:59. The R33 was later ruled out by European testers as a ringer and its official time taken away. However the damage has been done and the 7:59 record achieved its intended purpose of stirring up the establishment.

[redTT]

Originally Posted by Neo Anderson

Nissan's lame excuse for the difference in power output among various GT-R's? "Well (ahem.), these engines aren't mass-produced, meaning there will be little differences. See, we build each engine by hand, so it's no wonder why there will be differences in output between engines..."

If that was GM people would be calling quality control issues, if it was Porsche it would be character, and with Nissan it is individually crafted perfection.

American manufacturers gets the stick again.

[a_v_s]

Originally Posted by Neo Anderson

I think what Car and Driver was trying to get across was that Nissan was sending the first GT-R's out to the journalists, and that these first cars were actually highly modified and suspect. The implication is that the common GT-R that the GT-R owner will likely receive will be the more normal, 'de-tuned', 480 horsepower car that's on the spec-sheet and not the 530+ cars that the critics like Top Gear and Car and Driver were receiving.

But the article says the 5th GT-R they received is one that Nissan said was the actual production version with the final engine calibrations. C&D said this car dynoed an estimated 519hp at the crank, and did the quarter in 11.6@120mph, which is better than the 2nd and 3rd ones they received.

Also, remember the first GT-R that was tested, was not a car Nissan sent to a journalist. It was a PRODUCTION car (albeit JDM) that was owned by someone, that volunteered to let Edmunds test it.

[chakis24]

Originally Posted by eurohazard

There's a reason dealerships are called stealerships. It's not right, but this is America...capitalism at its finest (or worst). Let the gimps with too much money to blow get the first and second batch of X-car (in this case GT-R)....prices will back to MSRP.

not to mention with the way gm works the second batch will probably have more content and options and be of better quality overall.