Which Cadillac Is Better Than The Hyundai Genesis?

[PMC the 1st]

Originally Posted by Sal Collaziano

The 2007 and 2008 Escalades had fake wood.

You both are 1/2 correct: the wood trim in the Escalade is 1/2 real (dashboard) and 1/2 fake (everyw3here else). It's like leather seating surfaces. Leather seating surfaces are usually vinyl-trimmed leather.

[Sal Collaziano]

Duplicate. Please delete.

[Sal Collaziano]

BMW knows how to utilize room. They're much better at it than Cadillac. I don't know where you get the idea that BMW cars are "just little econo-boxes".

The Hyundai Genesis has been out for weeks. Where have you been?

The STS is not equal to the finest sedans in the world. Neither is the CTS. The new CTS-V happens to be the fastest - and closest to the finest sedans in the world. It is not, however, equal.

You, my friend, are living in a dream world. Not me.

Originally Posted by PMC the 1st

My God, the dream world you live in Sal! Is there anyone in as far left field as you?
Look. The Genesis is a huge, roomy sedan with an average, unproven V6 engine that doesn't even come with real wood. The CTS and STS are thoroughbread-developed sport sedans equal to the finest sedans in the world.
I have yet to understand your fascination with the Hyundai Genesis. I mean, it's not even out yet and the reviewers (reviewers worth anything, that is) are saying a lot of negatives about the car. There are two reviewers who say positive things about it: an obscure Canadian publication (you provided that silly link) and another one I can't remember. The ones that matter (Motor Trend; Car and Driver) weren't necessarily in love with the car. Unlike you, they test-drove the vehicle extensively.

I can understand your obsession with interior room; after all, I can't stand BMW because their cars are just little econo-boxes, but you shouldn't be judging a car based on roominess alone, either.

Wake me up when Hyundai comes up with an engine as advanced as GM's 3.6 DI. Or a chassis as dynamic and as proven as the Sigma platform. Or a user-interface as well-designed as the Infotainment system in CTS. Or interior quality that can at least remotely be compared to Mercedes quality, let alone CTS's quality. Or steering and braking that has the linearity and on-center feel of the CTS. Or real wood interiors.

Heck. The only real wood you'd ever find in the Genesis is in your shirt pocket if you're carrying around a pencil...

[EldoFan]

On the basis of interior room and weight, I'll admit the CTS doesn't exactly show it's best face against the Genesis.....but how exactly does the Genesis win out over said Cadillac??

[Sal Collaziano]

Originally Posted by EldoFan

On the basis of interior room and weight, I'll admit the CTS doesn't exactly show it's best face against the Genesis.....but how exactly does the Genesis win out over said Cadillac??

They both have their advantages. Looks are subjective but I give that to the CTS. Power goes to the Genesis. I've never heard anyone say the CTS build quality was Lexus-like. I've heard this from Genesis owners, however. I don't think the Genesis is necessarily better than the CTS. Then again, I don't think he CTS is necessarily better than the Genesis.

[2002 Caddy]

Originally Posted by PMC the 1st

The CTS and STS are thoroughbread-developed sport sedans equal to the finest sedans in the world.

The CTS is very nice... The STS on the other hand is a case study on how to take a world class car and drive it into the ground...

Let me explain..

Take the 1993 Cadillac Seville STS.
This car was probably the LAST world class large luxury sedan that GM built. At the time it was designed to compete with BMW 7 series, MB S class and the LS from Lexus... and against those (in order) it was a draw, a close second and a win. And the sales backed this up. The car was a huge money making HIT.

Move a head to 1998 and GM made some minor improvements to the car, a slightly smoother body, a little more power, a light interior refresh...you know keep costs under control.. But the others on the list focused on their product. In 1998 now it was a lose, not even close, and a tie... In fact by 2000 the STS no longer competed with the 7,S, and LS... Now it completed with the 5, the E Class and the GS...basically as tie, tie and a win. It only took 5 years and GM's cost cutting caused it to walk away from the uber sedan market...

But hang on it gets worse... Move a head to 2005... more cost cutting. The car gets smaller, minimal engine upgrades, cost cutting platform sharing, less interior features, and a body design that looks like the result of a grade school drawing competition... Meanwhile at the "engineering" companies the cars and power-trains got even better... Now the STS is just a large car that tries (and fails) to compete against the 530, the C Class and the tarted up Lexamry ES350... And sales are zilch.

So what does GM do? Cut some more costs... Lets kill the 32V Northstar replacement...

And now we are all debating why a POS Korean car maker has a more powerful V8 then Cadillac...

My Vote would be:
Cadillac is now a division looking for a world class V8 and
Hyundia is now a car maker with a nice engine in search of a car...

[jry]

Well, i drove them all. Media evaluations except for the 06 i bought. The FWD made them all highway cruisers. The 93 was way too bulgy. Having driven the other cars mentioned, i must say the 93 wasn't even close. The 98? The redesign made the car look nicer. Problem? Still FWD. I always wondered what would have happened if the car had AWD. Would it have handled better? We'll never know. The 06? nothing to sneeze at. Having tooled around quite a bit in the V..... Well, the V is second to no one. I may find myself back in an 08 STS4.

[PMC the 1st]

Originally Posted by Sal Collaziano

BMW knows how to utilize room. They're much better at it than Cadillac. I don't know where you get the idea that BMW cars are "just little econo-boxes".

The Hyundai Genesis has been out for weeks. Where have you been?

The STS is not equal to the finest sedans in the world. Neither is the CTS. The new CTS-V happens to be the fastest - and closest to the finest sedans in the world. It is not, however, equal.

You, my friend, are living in a dream world. Not me.

These quotes will show how far off in la-la land you are:

CTS is the most striking and original sedan we've seen in years. Better still, the 2008 edition carries its penchant for beauty right into the cockpit. In comparison, the Mercedes C350 cabin looks bleak and severe; the Honda Accord's dash seems fussy -- and not as well made. Cadillac's interior team has balanced form, function, and panache as deftly as we've seen it done -- in some ways better than anyone.
CTS proved to be one of the top performers in this year's field. Our test car clawed from 60 mph to 0 in a mere 109 feet (bettering even the lightweight, two-seat Audi TT), and the skidpad with 0.89 g of grip. More important, pushing the car hard is a joy. The engine is gutty enough to make the 3960-pound CTS feel far lighter than it is. The variable-effort steering is on the heavy side (a good thing) and communicative; the chassis impressively neutral, the brakes potent and durable. All those laps around the Nurburgring have formed key strands in the CTS's DNA.

It's when you're off the boil, though, that the CTS impresses the most. This Cadillac even gets the really tough stuff right-namely, the little things. The materials and controls make your fingertips happy. Your eyes notice the absence of jarring cockpit cut-lines, the tight, even fit of exterior panels. Your ears detect no annoying rattles, and but a hush of wind and road noise. Your backside senses the structure's solidity, the ride's well-damped support. Your smile...broadens.

"The nav/radio is exceptional. Others have tried to do this well but haven't come close. "Aachen HEAD" digital recording mimics human-hearing process, helped engineers isolate/minimize interior noise. CTS said to be among industry's quietest sedans. Cockpit is as striking as CTS exterior, boasting rich materials, superb fit and finish, minimal cut-lines. Delivers on the promise. Great style in and out. Fine detailing. And a real driver. Rethink what you've come to expect from Cadillac and even General Motors, too. The 2008 Cadillac CTS is that good."

Optional eight-inch, pop-up navigation/info touchscreen sets new industry standards for stylishness and ease of use.

The price seems fair considering the benefits of all its features, some of which we've not seen on any car at any price.
The mind-blowing infotainment system reminds us that Cadillac was the first to offer electric starter, automatic transmission... There was a time when people used to say "the Cadillac of Watches" when they were describing a Rolex, or "the Cadillac of Boats" when describing a Chris Craft. It's great to be reminded of those times. The CTS proves GM knows how to walk the line between a compliant ride and ultimate handling.
Inside, the CTS is the best-appointed car in the test. Not only have its interior quality and materials leapt ahead of the C-Class and G35, but its design is as striking as it is functional. From the leather-swathed details to the brilliantly capable and easy-to-use navigation and audio system, this is simply a nice car to be inside.
The best part of the car is the integration of the electronics on the center stack. All of the audio controls are exactly where you want them to be and you don't need to RTM to figure out anything. There are a ton of features and they're easy to use! Genius! The sliding touchscreen is pretty trick and syncs the whole thing together. This is the best iPod integration I've ever used, and it makes the one in Mercedes-Benz models seem like a junior high programming project.

From both Edmunds and Motor Trend. I could have gone everywhere else, Car and Driver, Autoweek, Automobile...

Sal, I wonder. Have you read any of these reviews on the 2008 CTS?
Are you even aware the car won Motor Trend's COTY award? Car and Driver's 10-Best? The reason I ask is that you seem totally in the dark about this car.

Now go back and read teh Motor Trend article on the CTS, and compare that with what Motor Trend said about the Hyundai Genesis.
There will be a very sharp contrast, indeed.

I seriously don't think you have read any of these articles yet.

[PMC the 1st]

Oh, and I almost forgot this from the same Edmunds article. Please reas it Sal like you should ahve read teh above articles where both say the CTS has an interior quality that surpasses the Mercedes Benz and G35 Infiniti:

The CTS's optional audio system boasts one of the best interfaces we've seen on any car at any price. There are many features and deep menus with a wide range of customizable features, yet the system never feels cumbersome or difficult to manage. Also the graphics are clear, bright and easy to read.

The pop-up screen is excellent and features a dual-mode use. When fully extended, it's a touchscreen; when retracted, it condenses audio information so that just the top part of the screen is used, yet retains touchscreen functionality.

The USB port means you can play music from portable storage devices like an iPod. Once you connect your device, a comprehensive list is easy to check at a glance — there's even a shuffle feature. Thanks for getting it, Cadillac.

Special features: Rounding out the near flawless interface is Gracenote software. Gracenote is responsible for finding the artist name, album name and track listing for each CD that cues up inside the head unit. This info stays with each song you save to the hard drive, which makes managing a library much easier. Unfortunately, Gracenote doesn't work on CDs you burn yourself, although it does quickly recognize even off-the-beaten-path albums by artists like Freedy Johnston, Small Town Poets and Julia Darling. Ever heard of them? Gracenote has.

Conclusion: Flexible, powerful and robust, this system is almost perfect and easily one of the five best systems on the market. With an amazingly slick interface and decent sound quality, Cadillac's new audio system sets the standard for other luxury brands. — Brian Moody, Road Test Editor

[Sal Collaziano]

Why prove to a man he is wrong? Is that going to make him like you? Why not let him save face? He didn't ask for your opinion. He didn't want it. Why argue with him? You can't win an argument, because if you lose, you lose it; and if you win it, you lose it. Why? You will feel fine. But what about him? You have made him feel inferior, you hurt his pride, insult his intelligence, his judgment, and his self-respect, and he'll resent your triumph. That will make him strike back, but it will never make him want to change his mind. "A man convinced against his will is of the same opinion still."

Our argument (or disagreement) has come to a close. I will only continue discussing the topic with others.

[FStephenMasek]

Just like our elections, your poll needs a "none of the above" choice.

[Sal Collaziano]

Originally Posted by FStephenMasek

Just like our elections, your poll needs a "none of the above" choice.

How I didn't think of that is beyond me.. I can't edit it either.. Damn..

[EldoFan]

Originally Posted by 2002 Caddy

The CTS is very nice... The STS on the other hand is a case study on how to take a world class car and drive it into the ground...

Let me explain..

Take the 1993 Cadillac Seville STS.
This car was probably the LAST world class large luxury sedan that GM built. At the time it was designed to compete with BMW 7 series, MB S class and the LS from Lexus... and against those (in order) it was a draw, a close second and a win. And the sales backed this up. The car was a huge money making HIT.

Move a head to 1998 and GM made some minor improvements to the car, a slightly smoother body, a little more power, a light interior refresh...you know keep costs under control.. But the others on the list focused on their product. In 1998 now it was a lose, not even close, and a tie... In fact by 2000 the STS no longer competed with the 7,S, and LS... Now it completed with the 5, the E Class and the GS...basically as tie, tie and a win. It only took 5 years and GM's cost cutting caused it to walk away from the uber sedan market...

But hang on it gets worse... Move a head to 2005... more cost cutting. The car gets smaller, minimal engine upgrades, cost cutting platform sharing, less interior features, and a body design that looks like the result of a grade school drawing competition... Meanwhile at the "engineering" companies the cars and power-trains got even better... Now the STS is just a large car that tries (and fails) to compete against the 530, the C Class and the tarted up Lexamry ES350... And sales are zilch.

So what does GM do? Cut some more costs... Lets kill the 32V Northstar replacement...

And now we are all debating why a POS Korean car maker has a more powerful V8 then Cadillac...

My Vote would be:
Cadillac is now a division looking for a world class V8 and
Hyundia is now a car maker with a nice engine in search of a car...

What's this? A voice of reason in the thread?! Say it ain't so!

Cadillac is a division looking for many things, not the least of which is a world class V8 (mgescuro knows what). Lord knows whether they'll ever find/get it......

I agree with your last line there about Hyundai. They're just going to have to keep building and building before they get the knack of it. Lexus didn't make the Europeans quiver with fear overnight did they? Despite the accolades, I don't think this (the Genesis) will either. It's more of an affront to Cadillac's CTS.

[PMC the 1st]

Originally Posted by Sal Collaziano

Why prove to a man he is wrong? Is that going to make him like you? Why not let him save face? He didn't ask for your opinion. He didn't want it. Why argue with him? You can't win an argument, because if you lose, you lose it; and if you win it, you lose it. Why? You will feel fine. But what about him? You have made him feel inferior, you hurt his pride, insult his intelligence, his judgment, and his self-respect, and he'll resent your triumph. That will make him strike back, but it will never make him want to change his mind. "A man convinced against his will is of the same opinion still."

Our argument (or disagreement) has come to a close. I will only continue discussing the topic with others.

I know this has come to a close, but remember, there are other people reading this. I am here to give Cadillac models the fair shake and to defend Cadillacs against misinformation.

[emh]

Originally Posted by Sal Collaziano

I do not believe the wood in the Genesis is real. It's just as fake as the wood found in the Cadillac Escalade..

That's what I thought (re. the Genesis). I knew the Escalade had fake wood, which is inexcusable given the rest of the Cadillac lineup (including cheaper vehicles) have real wood trim.

Both the Genesis and Escalade should have real wood trim (as well as other non-wood, non-fake trim options) given their price points.

I've never heard anyone say the CTS build quality was Lexus-like. I've heard this from Genesis owners, however. I don't think the Genesis is necessarily better than the CTS. Then again, I don't think he CTS is necessarily better than the Genesis.

Lexus build quality isn't what it used to be -- both the LS and IS I recently testdrove had their fair share of misaligned panels and loose-feeling trim pieces.