Autoweek on Camry: Outdated, Not Competitive

[Tone]

Autoweek did a short take on the four cylinder Camry. Not surprising, they found it a bit boring. Of interest to GMI readers, though, is this line:

Toyota has been able to get away with this for years, thanks to its impeccable quality and lack of surprises. But with cars such as the Ford Fusion and Chevrolet Malibu out there--not to mention the new Honda Accord and the hungry Koreans--the competition is a lot tougher these days. For a change, it's Toyota that needs to do better if it wants to keep its position.

http://www.autoweek.com/apps/pbcs.dl...2309/1532/FREE

I think Toyota may be the new GM -- circa 1975.

[FenwickHockey65]

That's great news!
Anybody know when toyota's planning on redesigning the camry?

[paul8488]

Originally Posted by Tone

[i]Toyota has been able to get away with this for years, thanks to its impeccable quality and lack of surprises.

Voila. GMi members hate to admit it, but the Camry has been, in general, a high-quality car that would cause you no problems, or at least not as many as many conmparable cars. That tide is perhaps changing, but not because the Camry is getting worse... it's because the competition is getting better. I don't like Toyota, but would have a tough time faulting a 4th generation Toyota family for buying another Camry. Now for the first time in a while there's good reason to change camps, but up until now there was just no real incentive.

[PhishPhood]

Originally Posted by FenwickHockey65

That's great news!
Anybody know when toyota's planning on redesigning the camry?

It seems to be on a weird cycle now. Normally it's 5 years for a Generation change and 10 years for the basic platform and each of the drivetrains. These 5 and 10 year cycles overlap.

The current Generation was due to arrive in Aug of 06 as a normal 07 model but it was advanced to March 1 to gain the benefit of the peak selling season ( Presidient's Day thru Labor Day ). Then there is normally a 3 year 'refresh' which should have been done March of 09 but it was advanced to March of this year ( Malibu / Accord / Altima / Fusion ? ). It's really only a cosmetic change. Then 2 years after the refresh comes the next generation. It would appear then that the next Generational change should take place in March of 2010 as an '11 model making this a 4 year Generation iso a 5 year one.

[1931Chevy]

^unless they plan going the Corolla way and keep it 3 more years on the market

[coaster.n3rd]

This is what we have been reading when reviews compare the family sedans, if the Camry ranks above 4th is any of these comparos it surprises me.

[coaster.n3rd]

Originally Posted by paul8488

Voila. GMi members hate to admit it, but the Camry has been, in general, a high-quality car that would cause you no problems, or at least not as many as many conmparable cars. That tide is perhaps changing, but not because the Camry is getting worse... it's because the competition is getting better. I don't like Toyota, but would have a tough time faulting a 4th generation Toyota family for buying another Camry. Now for the first time in a while there's good reason to change camps, but up until now there was just no real incentive.

its competent. Like a Cobalt.

[mbukukanyau]

Originally Posted by PhishPhood

It seems to be on a weird cycle now. Normally it's 5 years for a Generation change and 10 years for the basic platform and each of the drivetrains. These 5 and 10 year cycles overlap.

The current Generation was due to arrive in Aug of 06 as a normal 07 model but it was advanced to March 1 to gain the benefit of the peak selling season ( Presidient's Day thru Labor Day ). Then there is normally a 3 year 'refresh' which should have been done March of 09 but it was advanced to March of this year ( Malibu / Accord / Altima / Fusion ? ). It's really only a cosmetic change. Then 2 years after the refresh comes the next generation. It would appear then that the next Generational change should take place in March of 2010 as an '11 model making this a 4 year Generation iso a 5 year one.

I think GM only now needs to improve technology content and lastly improve interior materials

[Ach]

Originally Posted by paul8488

Voila. GMi members hate to admit it, but the Camry has been, in general, a high-quality car that would cause you no problems, or at least not as many as many conmparable cars. That tide is perhaps changing, but not because the Camry is getting worse... it's because the competition is getting better. I don't like Toyota, but would have a tough time faulting a 4th generation Toyota family for buying another Camry. Now for the first time in a while there's good reason to change camps, but up until now there was just no real incentive.

To change camps to American, that is. For me, over the past ten years or so the Accord, Altima and Passat have offered plenty of incentive- in terms of style and dynamics- to choose one of them instead of the Camry. Even if reliability and efficiency were the only concerns the Accord has been just good while offering much better dynamics and better styling IMHO.

[jcgable]

Hallelujah!

[PhishPhood]

What WILL be interesting to note is what happens this year in annual sales for the whole segment. To wit..
..when launched in March 06 the Gen6 Camry was easily the class of the segment, especially in terms of powertrain and features. Sales continued upward.
..as usual it quickly became middle-of-the-pack when other new models arrived; i.e. Accord, Malibu, refreshed Fusion, Altima. But sales still continued upward.

./. However each of these newer has some baggage or hurdles to overcome.

The Fusion has just recently added a competitive powertrain and competitive suite of safety features. It finally is in the mix. Ford still doesn't promote the I4 Fusion which is by far the biggest volume in the segment. Ford's financial health may be a concern to some buyers.
The Accord is very near the top in most comparo's but a LOT of people think that it has lost it's way by becoming SO big.
The Malibu also is very near the top but it has production issues thus far in order to generate the volume to approach the top 3. GM is doing the right thing to give at least equal emphasis to the I4 versions. However GM has a huge barrier to overcome just to get warm bodies in the door. There is a very real sense in buyers that 'if it ain't broke...' so they just go back to where they got the last one. Getting a whole generation of buyers that defected from '85 to '05 to come back into the GM showrooms is going to be one hell of a struggle and a huge marketing challenge.
The Altima is very competitve with the best powertrain with more striking styling than any of the others but it still doesn't have the interiors or NVH quality of the top competitors.
The Aura is very good but there aren't enough outlets nor enough marketing to make it a serious competitor for the top.
The Sonata is a better value than any of the others by a long shot. But it's only beginning to be taken seriously by the public. Maybe as much as 50% of its sales are to fleets. It too is limited by a smaller number of outlets.

In this down year to come with fuel likel to hit $4.00 in most of the country it will be very interesting to see how the public reacts.

[rlaltiowner05]

Originally Posted by PhishPhood

What WILL be interesting to note is what happens this year in annual sales for the whole segment. To wit..
..when launched in March 06 the Gen6 Camry was easily the class of the segment, especially in terms of powertrain and features. Sales continued upward.
..as usual it quickly became middle-of-the-pack when other new models arrived; i.e. Accord, Malibu, refreshed Fusion, Altima. But sales still continued upward.

./. However each of these newer has some baggage or hurdles to overcome.

The Fusion has just recently added a competitive powertrain and competitive suite of safety features. It finally is in the mix. Ford still doesn't promote the I4 Fusion which is by far the biggest volume in the segment. Ford's financial health may be a concern to some buyers.
The Accord is very near the top in most comparo's but a LOT of people think that it has lost it's way by becoming SO big.
The Malibu also is very near the top but it has production issues thus far in order to generate the volume to approach the top 3. GM is doing the right thing to give at least equal emphasis to the I4 versions. However GM has a huge barrier to overcome just to get warm bodies in the door. There is a very real sense in buyers that 'if it ain't broke...' so they just go back to where they got the last one. Getting a whole generation of buyers that defected from '85 to '05 to come back into the GM showrooms is going to be one hell of a struggle and a huge marketing challenge.
The Altima is very competitve with the best powertrain with more striking styling than any of the others but it still doesn't have the interiors or NVH quality of the top competitors.
The Aura is very good but there aren't enough outlets nor enough marketing to make it a serious competitor for the top.
The Sonata is a better value than any of the others by a long shot. But it's only beginning to be taken seriously by the public. Maybe as much as 50% of its sales are to fleets. It too is limited by a smaller number of outlets.

In this down year to come with fuel likel to hit $4.00 in most of the country it will be very interesting to see how the public reacts.

Fusion
If the Fusion's interior redo is anything like the "facelift" of Expedition, Focus and F150 they will still be behind. I hear new more fuel efficient and powerful engines are on the way and that's great...but those interiors or horrid, almost as bad as Chrysler/Dodge. Fusion's styling is nice though and they handle great. I hope they really do something with the inside.

Accord is rated THE TOP in most comparison test. Only one it hasn't won so far is Motortrend's Crazy one. Car and Driver, Edmunds.com(a total of three comparisons done by them) Cars.com. I await Road and Track's comparison test as well. Accord's main issue it the busy interior and the fact that it's missing some features that have become expected in this class (bluetooth only with Navigation?, no rear AC vents?) The car is no doubt bigger than before but it's actually still smaller interior-wise than the Sonata which is a fullsize vehicle regardless of trim level. Only Accord LX and LX-P models are full size because they lack sunroofs.

Malibu
I dont think will have as much a problem getting folks to check it out as many critics think. I work out at Bally. Never in a million years did I think I'd see ads in my gm about a Malibu. They are EVERYWHERE. If Gm had done this with the Aura, sells would no doubt be much higher, regardless of retailer issues. Malibu has something this class lacks, STYLE. The car isnt perfect and could use some more technological features but it's got the styling thing in the bag. Only car that comes close is the Aura and Altima. Everything else is blah in comparison. GM needs to get serious and get the i4/6spd models out and have that basic advantage over the competition and those door panels need some real padding..not the cheap brittle plastic they have right now.
Altima
As an owner of an 05 Altima, I think Nissan played it too safe with the redesign. I'm personally beginning to hate my Altima, even though I love it's exterior styling. I will say that Nissan's interior materials used in the Altima's are still better than those used in the Malibu. Nissan's door panels have soft cloth paddling on cloth models and the usual vinyl the competition uses on leather-clad models. The materials are bland in color but I'd rate them better than the Camry's and better than the Malibu's. Nissan's CVT is great in V6 form, but the gruff sounding I4 mixed with the CVT sounds terrible. The available 6spd manual is horrible in comparison to stick shifts used by Honda, VW and Mazda. Altima is also expensive in V6 form though it packs the most technology in this class with BT, Push button start and rear view camera available.

Aura
Should be selling better PERIOD. A shortage of retail stores may be an issue, but GM's own lack of better advertising and product planning is the real issue. No XR four cylinder in a market where Accord EX and EX-L models make up over 65 percent of sales? No alloy wheels or leather available on Aura XE i4 when Malibu offers 2LT and soon LTZ I4 models. 09 should be the year Saturn FINALLY gets the Aura right hopefully. GM messed this one up. XE and XR I4 Aura's should have been available from the start.

Sonata
Things for Hyundai may improve withe 09 facelift seeing as it gets better interior materials, a new interior and tweaks for more hp and better fuel economy. Hyundai has also upped the ante on safety since 2006, better everyone in this class for standard features on even basic models. Sonata also the roomiest while having one of the shortest exterior lenghts in this class. Problem is Sonata faces the same obstacle as Aura and Malibu with perception issues. I think the car will do well and pave the way for the next generations to come. This Sonata would actually be one I'd consider owning. Can't say that about the last two generations.

[DU Biggs]

Originally Posted by PhishPhood

It seems to be on a weird cycle now. Normally it's 5 years for a Generation change and 10 years for the basic platform and each of the drivetrains. These 5 and 10 year cycles overlap.

The current Generation was due to arrive in Aug of 06 as a normal 07 model but it was advanced to March 1 to gain the benefit of the peak selling season ( Presidient's Day thru Labor Day ). Then there is normally a 3 year 'refresh' which should have been done March of 09 but it was advanced to March of this year ( Malibu / Accord / Altima / Fusion ? ). It's really only a cosmetic change. Then 2 years after the refresh comes the next generation. It would appear then that the next Generational change should take place in March of 2010 as an '11 model making this a 4 year Generation iso a 5 year one.

I just noticed the 09 camry on Yahoo autos, then verified with toyota.com (i trust yahoo about as far as i could throw roseann barr). It is an 09, but i can't for the life of me figure out what is different. I tried for about 5 minutes and then got sick to my stomach from looking at pictures of a camry. Can anyone spot the differences?

[CobaltSScrazy]

sup Biggs, hows life? Don't want class to start again

Camry is camry, until they 'mess up' hugely, or until someone else is clearly superior for over a 5 year period, the juggernaut will continue. JMO

CobaltSS

[rlaltiowner05]

Originally Posted by CobaltSScrazy

sup Biggs, hows life? Don't want class to start again

Camry is camry, until they 'mess up' hugely, or until someone else is clearly superior for over a 5 year period, the juggernaut will continue. JMO

CobaltSS

According to most magazine reviews the Accord, along with the Mazda6 have been superior for the last twenty(Accord) and 3 years (that was before the Camry got a redesign) If you mean sales-wise then I'll agree.

Camry is hardly the benchmark of this class when it comes down to the best of the best. That's the Accord. Camry is the benchmark for sales, ride quality and for a many years quality. We already see quality slipping.