AutoBlog: New "world-class" luxury sedan rolling into showrooms later this month

[King Riffle]

If I were in the market I'd certainly consider it. It sounds like a genuinely good car. Then again, I'm not terribly interested in showing off my car's badge, so maybe I'm different than most luxury buyers. VW sells the Phaeton here again though, don't they? That'd be a tough choice, I the Phaeton.

Fwiw, I'm not of Korean descent.

[DuSpinnst]

Originally Posted by mgescuro

So long as Genesis is hobbled by the Hyundai brand.... it ain't going anywhere....

Yep. Even the rags say that.

[GrandPrix08]

Well, it seems like they started go on sale. Not all Hyundai dealers has it, but there is a member who posts in Sal's Genesis site who lives in NV who bought the car(I guess he is one of the first) and have posted number of pics. So, I guess they are here afterall.

[Sal Collaziano]

Originally Posted by GrandPrix08

Well, it seems like they started go on sale. Not all Hyundai dealers has it, but there is a member who posts in Sal's Genesis site who lives in NV who bought the car(I guess he is one of the first) and have posted number of pics. So, I guess they are here afterall.

You forgot to mention where he said it was of higher quality than his 2006 Lexus GS430...

http://genesisowners.com/hyundai-gen...read.php?t=154

[plane]

Originally Posted by Sal Collaziano

You forgot to mention where he said it was of higher quality than his 2006 Lexus GS430...

http://genesisowners.com/hyundai-gen...read.php?t=154

Good luck with that.

[PMC the 1st]

Originally Posted by FordGMfan

The new Hyundai Genesis is exactly where Lexus was. Yes it still isn't quite as luxurious or refined as a BMW, Mercedes or Lexus. Look at where it's coming in though price wise. Then, to laugh at it and this coming from a bunch of GM fans on a GM website is nothing to be surprised about. The same people think the Cadillac CTS is the holy grail...I have news for you it is not.
Hyundai has better build quality then most GM models and they've been around for what 25 years or so? GM has been around for how long and still hasen't gotten its act in gear. A great sedan needs a great powertrain, chassis and quality. GM does not hit all these marks with their sedans, with the exception of the (New) CTS and Malibu. The Accord is still a better car then the Malibu, and the C class Mercedes and BMW 3 series are still miles ahead of the CTS.

I'm totally against the banning of IP addresses regardless of what's written, but trolling of this calibur usually isn't tolerated here.
Just a head's up.

[PMC the 1st]

Originally Posted by Sal Collaziano

Which Cadillac is better than the Hyundai Genesis?

We're still asking the question whether or not the CTS is the best entry-level sports sedan (M/T thinks so; Car and Driver is yielding in that direction and even Consumer Reports rates the CTS higher than most entry-level sports sedans). I mean, it's argued that the CTS is a better car than the BMW 328, Benz C-Class, Audi A4 and Lexus IS350.
We still have yet to resolve Escalade versus LX 570/Infiniti QX56/Audi Q7/Mercedes G-Class (although consensus is that Cadillac is the best out of all).
I don't know where Hyundai fits into any of this...

[Sal Collaziano]

Originally Posted by PMC the 1st

I'm totally against the banning of IP addresses regardless of what's written, but trolling of this calibur usually isn't tolerated here.
Just a head's up.

No big deal. It's just his opinion.. I think this site wants people to feel they can express their opinions. If people become a PITA about it (their opinions) than it becomes a problem.

[Sal Collaziano]

Originally Posted by PMC the 1st

We're still asking the question whether or not the CTS is the best entry-level sports sedan (M/T thinks so; Car and Driver is yielding in that direction and even Consumer Reports rates the CTS higher than most entry-level sports sedans). I mean, it's argued that the CTS is a better car than the BMW 328, Benz C-Class, Audi A4 and Lexus IS350.
We still have yet to resolve Escalade versus LX 570/Infiniti QX56/Audi Q7/Mercedes G-Class (although consensus is that Cadillac is the best out of all).
I don't know where Hyundai fits into any of this...

The only Cadillac that should really be running head to head with the Genesis is the DTS. I agree with you on the CTS. It's a sick **** car.. I love it..

In any event, Cadillacs premium luxury sedan doesn't compare to the new Genesis (other than looks, which are entirely subjective).. I just hope this new STS/DTS replacement comes sooner than later. 2012 is too late. Hyundai will already be on it's Bentley sized competitor by them - and will probably have a luxury brand as well.

[PMC the 1st]

Originally Posted by Sal Collaziano

Again. This is just the beginning.. They WILL create a luxury brand... They're not going to build world-class cars and badge them as Hyundai's forever... We're not talking about Cadillac here. And you have to admit - it's pretty unreal/amazing that Hyundai makes a better luxury car than Cadillac does.. I mean - which Cadillac is better? The DTS? The STS? Heh! Right.

Are you a crack baby?
The reason I ask is because this Hyundai should be compared against the Buick Lucerne or Toyota Avalon. All three are non-prestige marques that offer an isolated ride, no real research and development time spent tuning the chassis dynamics (unlike Lexus, BMW, Cadillac and to a lesser extent Mercedes Benz), obvious lapses in quality (Avalon shares some interior componentry and hardware with Camry, Buick is little more than a bench seat with a stereo and Hyundai has some obvious and plentiful use of naugahyde on the Genesis's seating surfaces), and really nothing beyond a heavily-soundproofed cabin.
That's all these three cars are: regular ol' sedans with heavily-soundproofed cabins.
No R&D, no chassis tuning, no prestige, no nothing.

[PMC the 1st]

Originally Posted by Sal Collaziano

The only Cadillac that should really be running head to head with the Genesis is the DTS. I agree with you on the CTS. It's a sick **** car.. I love it..

In any event, Cadillacs premium luxury sedan doesn't compare to the new Genesis (other than looks, which are entirely subjective).. I just hope this new STS/DTS replacement comes sooner than later. 2012 is too late. Hyundai will already be on it's Bentley sized competitor by them - and will probably have a luxury brand as well.

Now that you've settled down...
No, I don't think the Genesis is a better car than the Cadillac DTS. Why? The biggest reason is the chassis. You may or may not (most probably not) be aware that the Cadillac DTS chassis is among the most stiff in the industry. Reading about the torsional rigidity of the new Genesis and it's obvious Hyundai created a stiff chassis. But please bear in mind it isn't nearly as stiff as the DTS platform, which is now over 15 years old (the current DTS chassis first arrived on the now-gone Oldsmobile Aurora, later to be adopted by Cadillac STS for the 1998 STS model year).
If you've ever wondered why the DTS and Buick Lucerne cousins are so heavy, it's heavy for this reason. With the stiff chassis comes a vault-like ride and terrific noise isolation. But poor gas mileage.

To give you an idea of how much larger the Genesis will have to stretch to equal the Cadillac in interior room, I've included pictures.



Roomy, but not nearly as limo-like as the DTS above. Notice some cheapness with the pockets in the driver/passenger seats:



Interior can go either way, but I've been looking at close-up pictures of the Genesis in every available picture, and the closer I look, the cheaper the Genesis looks. Hyundai does add some nice details, though, like the ring that holds the gauges: it's not plastic, but stitched leatherette, which gives the interior a quality appearance. But, looking at the back seats (just shown) and you see some cheapness in the map pockets. Also the gauge cluster looks Sonata-ish.

Old school. Still looks luxurious, functional and certainly old-personish:



In general, interior isn't in the same league as the Cadillac, but obviously newer, and certainly nice:

[FStephenMasek]

Originally Posted by PMC the 1st

Hyundai should be compared against the Buick Lucerne or Toyota Avalon. All three are non-prestige marques that offer an isolated ride, no real research and development time spent tuning the chassis dynamics

How do you know that, or do you just hope that they didn't invest in what was needed to make an excellent product? They cdrtainly did good with the engine, and the features, and the basic design (RWD, not the FWD junk of the Buick & Avalon), Etc.

I haev driven the DTS, and for more than test drives (see old posts), and it is not equipped with the the marvelous chassis described above.

[PMC the 1st]

Originally Posted by FStephenMasek

How do you know that, or do you just hope that they didn't invest in what was needed to make an excellent product? They cdrtainly did good with the engine, and the features, and the basic design (RWD, not the FWD junk of the Buick & Avalon), Etc.

I haev driven the DTS, and for more than test drives (see old posts), and it is not equipped with the the marvelous chassis described above.

Answer to your first statement: We haven't seen any Hyundai Genesis's bobbing up and down on the Nurburgring lately, have we?

Answer to the second: The DTS platform is shared with the Buick Lucerne, a car that shares the same platform as the earlier FWD Cadillacs, Buick Park Avenue and Riviera and Oldsmobile Aurora. That earlier platform for a time was the stiffest in the industry, eclipsing the Mercedes benz platform (S 430. Remember?)

[Mr. Burns]

Originally Posted by PMC the 1st

Now that you've settled down...
No, I don't think the Genesis is a better car than the Cadillac DTS. Why? The biggest reason is the chassis. You may or may not (most probably not) be aware that the Cadillac DTS chassis is among the most stiff in the industry. Reading about the torsional rigidity of the new Genesis and it's obvious Hyundai created a stiff chassis. But please bear in mind it isn't nearly as stiff as the DTS platform, which is now over 15 years old (the current DTS chassis first arrived on the now-gone Oldsmobile Aurora, later to be adopted by Cadillac STS for the 1998 STS model year).
If you've ever wondered why the DTS and Buick Lucerne cousins are so heavy, it's heavy for this reason. With the stiff chassis comes a vault-like ride and terrific noise isolation. But poor gas mileage.

To give you an idea of how much larger the Genesis will have to stretch to equal the Cadillac in interior room, I've included pictures.


Roomy, but not nearly as limo-like as the DTS above. Notice some cheapness with the pockets in the driver/passenger seats:



Interior can go either way, but I've been looking at close-up pictures of the Genesis in every available picture, and the closer I look, the cheaper the Genesis looks. Hyundai does add some nice details, though, like the ring that holds the gauges: it's not plastic, but stitched leatherette, which gives the interior a quality appearance. But, looking at the back seats (just shown) and you see some cheapness in the map pockets. Also the gauge cluster looks Sonata-ish.

Old school. Still looks luxurious, functional and certainly old-personish:



In general, interior isn't in the same league as the Cadillac, but obviously newer, and certainly nice:

Specifications beg to differ.

Cadillac DTS:






Hyundai Genesis:






http://consumerguideauto.howstuffwor...llac-dts-3.htm
http://consumerguideauto.howstuffwor...-genesis-3.htm


So let's go over them. Both have the same wheelbase, but the DTS is longer and thus has more cargo volume. But the Genesis has more front head and leg room, and the DTS has more rear head and leg room hinting that the Genesis is more of a drivers car than a car to be driven in.

Engine wise we see the Genesis pull out 375HP and 333lb.ft of torque out of a 4.6L engine vs. the DTS' 292HP and 288lb.ft torque. We also see that despite this the Genesis manages better fuel economy, 17/25 vs. 15/22 with a 6 speed tranny rather than the four speed in the DTS. The Genesis also weighs less, meaning that it's likely more nimble (cannot be commented until one is driven back to back).

Despite all this, the Genesis costs much less than the DTS, at most 13k cheaper.

Last but not least, the Genesis, despite having a design which is plagiarized from BMW, and ranks among the new toyota sequoia as being one of the cars most insulting to modern vehicle design, looks quite a bit better and more modern than the DTS, inside and out IMHO.

So you see why Sal is worried. And no, a firmer suspension and more rear room does not compensate for a weaker engine, less fuel economy, dated exterior and interior design and a 4 speed tranny all at a price that is 6-7k more expensive. But you know what? The Cadillac logo at the front just might.

[PMC the 1st]

Originally Posted by Mr. Burns

Specifications beg to differ.

DTS has more rear head and leg room hinting that the Genesis is more of a drivers car than a car to be driven in.

Genesis manages better fuel economy, 17/25 vs. 15/22 The Genesis also weighs less, meaning that it's likely more nimble. Despite all this, the Genesis costs much less than the DTS.

So you see why Sal is worried. And no, a firmer suspension and more rear room does not compensate for a weaker engine, less fuel economy, dated exterior and interior design and a 4 speed tranny all at a price that is 6-7k more expensive. But you know what? The Cadillac logo at the front just might.

The new Accord really didn't give up much in the way of it's handling when it was increased to the size of a Chrysler 300. This tells me that the Genesis is shorter than the Cadillac DTS not because it's more of a driver's car, but because it's a cheaper car. Less sheetmetal = less expense and lower MSRP.
So far, the reviews that are coming in for the Hyundai Genesis point to a soft, isolated ride. Motor Trend says the Genesis's main competitors would be the Lexus ES 350, Acura TL/RL Crysler 300 and Pontiac G8. Three out of these four competitors are comfy cars, not driver's cars.
Also, the 6-speed in the Genesis is an Aisin unit and the 4-speed in the Caddy is a turbo hydramatic. We all know the Torbo Hydramatic is a better brand than Aisin when it comes to automatics. To prove myself correct, what do you think of Honda's 5-speed automatic? It only has five forward gears as opposed to competitors' 6 gears. Why do you not complain about the Honda's five only gears?
While it's true the Cadillac isn't a value compared to the Genesis. But then again, luxury marques are allowed to get away with this. It's called prestige. You have to pay for it.
Although I kind of like the Genesis interior, most people won't be as accepting. I'm seeing alot of complaints on the Genesis interior, like "it's downright weird." Thus, the DTS's dated interior may be viewed as favorable if the Genesis's interior is seen as "weird."