Another Toyota Problem?

[FenwickHockey65]

http://www.autoblog.com/2008/06/10/t...-acceleration/

Audi went through it in the '80s. Jeep went through it a couple years ago. Other makers have been accused of it, and now it's Toyota's turn: the NHTSA is considering investigating Tacoma pickup trucks from 2004-2008 due to claims of unintended acceleration. In one instance, a man said he turned off his cruise control to exit the freeway, and the truck surged on him, forcing him to dodge a few vehicles -- even as he had his foot on the brake pedal.

Funniest part:

The company wrote to the NHTSA and said, "Toyota believes that it is likely that many of the consumer complaints about the general issue of unwanted acceleration ... as well as many of the complaints about this subject that have been received by Toyota, were inspired by publicity."

Suuuuuuuuuuuuuure.

[minnfang]

I hate to admit it, but I might side with Toyota on this one. This kind of crap always crops up. Last weekend a total non-car guy told me that Malibus are a bad car because they roll over too easily. His daughter rolled hers and ended upside down in a ditch. He also heard of someone else rolling one, and that's it, they roll over too easily.

What an idiot - his daughter can't drive, and the Malibu sucks. I didn't even try to respond. It would have been easier to teach a rock to bark than explaining to him how wrong he was.

[Ambalanche]

The problem with this is that the media will NEVER rake Toyota over the coals like it did with Audi and Suzuki. It would take a 60 minutes report for that, and actually probably more because 60 minutes doesn't hold the same cachet as it did when those stories were told. (emphasis on STORIES!)

[jkennedy293]

It still amazes me how a car accelerates out of control when you floor the acceler..er, I mean, um...brake.

[AMERICA 123]

Oh yea, poor Toyota.

http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/a...SS01/806100389

Toyota denies Tacoma is defective

Media inspired acceleration claims, it says

BY JUSTIN HYDE • FREE PRESS WASHINGTON STAFF • June 10, 2008

WASHINGTON -- Some 431 customers from around the country have reported unintended or sudden acceleration in their Toyota Tacoma pickups, resulting in 51 crashes and 12 injuries, but the automaker said there are no flaws in the trucks and that many reports were "inspired by publicity."

Federal regulators are still weighing whether to upgrade the investigation launched in February, which has broadened to include 775,000 Tacomas sold between the 2004 and 2008 model years.

That probe was spurred by a Tacoma owner who noted 32 complaints to the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration over acceleration problems -

It could also address why no pickup model other than the Tacoma has garnered more than a few complaints of unexpected acceleration to the NHTSA during the same period.

Toyota told the NHTSA last month that most of the claims to itself and the agency dealt with minor engine speed changes that have no relation to safety, and that its own investigation last October of 12 trucks reported to have sudden acceleration problems found no defects.

It also said "extensive media coverage" spurred additional reports and could explain why no other pickup has similar complaints.

"Toyota believes that it is likely that many of the consumer complaints about the general issue of unwanted acceleration ... as well as many of the complaints about this subject that have been received by Toyota, were inspired by publicity," Toyota said in a letter to the NHTSA released Thursday.

"But even taking them at face value, it is clear that the majority of the complaints are related to minor drivability issues and are not indicative of a safety-related defect."

Toyota's explanation

The Tacoma uses a drive-by-wire system, where computer controls replace a direct physical connection between the accelerator pedal and the throttle. Toyota said its system was designed to report an error in case the accelerator pedal and throttle are mismatched, and that it has not found error codes in vehicles inspected either by technicians or mechanics at dealerships.

Now here is where both Toyota and the NHTSA are being victimized - obviously.

While Toyota told regulators that "extensive media coverage and Internet references" fueled the surge of reports, it doesn't offer specifics.

The first local TV report of the problem came from a Nashville station in October 2007.

.................................................. .................................................. .................................................. ................................

According to data obtained by the Free Press, 403 of the 514 complaints Toyota reported to the NHTSA were received before then.

.................................................. .................................................. .................................................. ................................

NHTSA records show that 18 complaints of sudden acceleration in Tacomas were made before then, with the earliest from February 2006.

Media databases show no reporting in a U.S. newspaper about the problems until a Free Press story early this April < 2008>.

Toyota spokesman Bill Kwong said tests by the automaker and the NHTSA revealed no problems that would explain the complaints.

He said the problems were not as prevalent as the number of complaints suggested, saying the NHTSA asked for any cases where engine idle speed increased.

"We remain confident in the safety of the vehicles," Kwong said.

Hey, well, at least we know its not the floormats - nope, not this one.

[jry]

Originally Posted by AMERICA 123

Oh yea, poor Toyota.



Hey, well, at least we know its not the floormats - nope, not this one.

No, its because we americans have feet that are too big and wide. Its all pedal spacing. Ask the Germans.

[AMERICA 123]

Originally Posted by jry

No, its because we americans have feet that are too big and wide. Its all pedal spacing. Ask the Germans.

So far, that is not what Toyota or the NHTSA HAVE SAID - much less suggested.

Reread the article - Toyotas is both suggesting and blaming the Media and the Internet although The Detroit Free Press has presented information that contradicts that possibility.

[silvergoat2k6]

"Unintended acceleration" can be summed up in two words..."driver error".

[stormwatcher]

Originally Posted by Ambalanche

The problem with this is that the media will NEVER rake Toyota over the coals like it did with Audi and Suzuki. (emphasis on STORIES!)

Sometimes, we the public don't trust the media, and often for good reason. Remember when Dateline did their "report" on GM trucks exploding because of poorly placed fuel tanks?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Datelin...General_Motors

Dateline rigged their investigation to make a GM truck explode into flames. So don't always trust the media. They sometimes push a story illegally.

[AMERICA 123]

Originally Posted by silvergoat2k6

"Unintended acceleration" can be summed up in two words..."driver error".

Yes in one sense ie brakes over throttle - or so it was or, if you prefer, as long as a computer cannot possibly affect pedal application and line or caliper pressures ie pad clamping force.

Drive by wire and related introduces new variables - see AIRBUS 300 early development and later - after introduction.

Ironically, on a completely non related vehicle over here, (non GM ) we are actually experiencing something very similiar although much milder in effect - involving what seems to be a combination of relatively minor anomalies.

I'm still playing with it - if you are at rest in drive ( fully warmed up etc ) it will jump a foot or two out in front if your foot isn't very and unusually firm against the brake pedal . Actually thats not fully right all the time. Sometimes with the pedal fully and firmly pushed you simultaneously lose the pedal and experience a milder quick bump which returns right after the jump - this is easy to guess at but nothings panned out - no codes and alot more than that.

Related to and compounding this - or really co factoring the problem is an erratic and somewhat misleading malfunction in the power brake boost system - which doesn't matter until also inexplicably the idle shoots up in a completely different way.

Humidity and or moisture may have something to do with it

Dealer has looked it over and has experienced one half of the problem and the other only weakly - they are completely perplexed - haven't seen it before.

I'm very aware how AUDI got labeled unfairly - in rather close detail.

Ditto GM.

[jry]

Originally Posted by AMERICA 123

So far, that is not what Toyota or the NHTSA HAVE SAID - much less suggested.

Reread the article - Toyotas is both suggesting and blaming the Media and the Internet although The Detroit Free Press has presented information that contradicts that possibility.

It was a joke.

[drew630]

Originally Posted by stormwatcher

Sometimes, we the public don't trust the media, and often for good reason. Remember when Dateline did their "report" on GM trucks exploding because of poorly placed fuel tanks?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Datelin...General_Motors

Dateline rigged their investigation to make a GM truck explode into flames. So don't always trust the media. They sometimes push a story illegally.

Wow, I never knew about this. Now I know never to watch Dateline again.

[Generous Motors]

Originally Posted by drew630

Wow, I never knew about this. Now I know never to watch Dateline again.

The Editor from Popular Hot Rodding Magazine actually found the trucks that Dateline had used to stage the fire in low speed impacts. GM went to the wrecking yards to buy the trucks for the lawsuits, NBC had hidden the burned "flawwed" vehicles in a yard in Oklahoma or Arkansas, considering NBC filmed it out of Illinois somewhere. One fact that NBC never told in the story was that Ford F150's had a higher rate of fire reported even though it had its tank in "a safe place". I never have trusted Dateline since, 60 Mintues followed right behind it.......when you do the story with a bias it isn't journalism.

[Old Dood]

Originally Posted by minnfang

I hate to admit it, but I might side with Toyota on this one. This kind of crap always crops up. Last weekend a total non-car guy told me that Malibus are a bad car because they roll over too easily. His daughter rolled hers and ended upside down in a ditch. He also heard of someone else rolling one, and that's it, they roll over too easily.

What an idiot - his daughter can't drive, and the Malibu sucks. I didn't even try to respond. It would have been easier to teach a rock to bark than explaining to him how wrong he was.

You can teach a Rock to Bark?
Damn...I can't wait to tell people this one.

Seriously...Good point!

[eurohazard]

I have posted on this topic before at a Toyota forum I belong to. But I'll ask the question here:

Why in the heck wouldn't these drivers just shift into neutral? IF there was a "real" unintended acceleration problem.......sure the engine might blown up, but without the power of the engine driving the wheels forward, you'd at least have ample to time to get to a shoulder or off the road completely by the time the engine quit.

Sure the throttle is drive-by-wire, but the transmission is still mechanical via the little lever we call a shifter.