Why should GM cut/keep Saab?

[JVal14]

I'm sure most people have heard that GM may eliminate one of it's brands. There's room for a great deal of conjecture on this subject, and I'm sure that everyone has an opinion of what brand should be cut, and which one would most likely be cut (which are not necessarily the same).

I'm starting a thread in each brand-forum regarding the issue of the possibility of that particular brand being cut (i.e.: the thread in the Saturn forums discusses the possibility of Saturn being eliminated). I'm starting these threads to gather as much opinion as possible, so please offer your ideas on why you would like a brand to be cut or not cut, and why that brand may actually be cut or not. Please confine your opinions to the particular brand in question; comments for other brands should be brought up in their respective forum.

When offering opinions, please keep a few things in mind:
- Cadillac and Chevrolet are probably the only "safe" brands, for a variety of reasons, therefore there are no threads under those forums. Hummer is also unlikely, in my opinion.
- Foreign brands (i.e. Saab, Isuzu, Holden, etc.) are complicated because of followings in other countries, but ther are not entirely immune.
- Any elimination would probably be a "phase out" a la Oldsmobile. A decision of elimination would not mean the brand would dissappear the next day.
- Please try to present your own ideas, and minimize the responses to other people's comments. I hope for opinions, not disagreements.

Saab:
First of all, I think that if GM decided to be rid of Saab, they would sell it, not disintegrate it. From a strictly objective point of view, I think that GM has done too much investing and strategizing in Saab to be rid of it. With so many new and redesigned models, I don't think they would back out so quickly. Subjectively, Saab seems to be gaining more mainstream popularity, courtesy of the new 9-3; and at the moment, it seems that it is the most ready and able competitor in the entry-level luxury (which often coincides with sport-luxury, and FWD) market.
That being said, GM does not seem to have much confidence in Saab, even though their increasing investment into it. They gave the big Euro manufacturing job to Opel in Germany instead of Saab. Some will say GM won't cut Saab because they've guarenteed work for their plant until 2010, but that's plenty of time to phase out the brand; and if they sell it, they won't have to worry about guarentees.
I think Saab is slowly becoming more acceptable in the U.S. I can't speak for Europeans, but I think they should do equally well in Europe if they continue to offer economical cars. With some more tweaking and pushing, GM could retake a lot of U.S. sales from Acura, Volvo and Audi using Saab vehicles.

[yoblues]

Saab is known in the USA. Opel/Vauxhall is not. Combine Saab with Opel/Vax and call it Saab that would work. Also you could go to a total 9-3 strategy. Sedan,Hatchback,Convertable, Wagon, Crossover. AWD standard. 2.0 210 hp 4 standard. V6 engine option. Hybird option on every car. That would also work.

[mgescuro]

The point is moot now. GM isn't cutting any brands.

But GM shouldn't cut Saab because it is the only true global brand GM has. It is sold everywhere... in all regions.
Saab also has the engineering prowess not found anywhere else in GM. Saab's current engines have the ability to use any level of octane gas in the market, and will adjust its timing accordingly. Also, Saab has the only E85/gasoline engine on the market that will adapt to mixture of the fuel, so if you're not near an E85 pump, you just put in regular gas, and let the engine do the rest. These are innovations not found anywhere else.

Just distinguish the cars away from rebadges... ensure performance, safety, and style... and market the car accordingly.... and you're set.

[yoblues]

That's the problem. Saab like Volvo brought a lot to the table. Ford decided to use what Volvo had to offer and it has helped Ford tremendously. As far as I can see GM has made no attempt to do the same with Saab but has done the opposite. Tried to turn Saab into another GM re-badge and has almost sunk it. Saab was a leader in auto safety, fuel efficient engine technology and is known as a GREEN (environmentally friendly) company. What more do you need for a sales pitch in this day and age. Then again your dealing with GM suits, next to Mitsubishi the biggest morons in the auto industry.

[Redcoat]

GM has done its very best to kill Saab...by trying to make Opels into FWD BMW fighters and failing.

Saab needs a fresh start - not an SUV.

the 9-3 needs a slantback Coupe bodystyle like the C900 - that was an iconic saab design.

The 9-5 needs to make the most of Epsilon 2 and GMs turbo engines. Make it an Infiniti / Volvo / Acura beater.

and saab always had amazing interiors...i remember a C900 turbo was the first car i sat in with factory sports seats! And the dash made you feel like a fighter pilot - no like the current slightly dated interiors.

Invest, GM, Invest...this is your import mid-luxury fighter RIGHT HERE. a brand that can take it to Acura / Infiniti / Audi / Volvo if you let it...

[FoMoCo Fan]

Instead of paying Fiat a couple of billion in cash, they should have given them Saab instead and killed two birds with one big stone.

[yoblues]

FIAT would not take it, besides Fiat and Mitsubishi are the only two auto companies run worse than GM. Sell it to Toyota or Renault, companies that would know how to use Saab.

[surferdude00711]

3 GM Brands Seem To Share This Sub-Luxury:

Saab = Rebadged Subarus (Swedenese)
Saturn = Opel (Euro)
Buick = American

Is that too many? I think so. Kill Saab if you ask me. And Pontiac too. crappy Chevy rebadges...

[mgescuro]

Originally Posted by yoblues

FIAT would not take it, besides Fiat and Mitsubishi are the only two auto companies run worse than GM. Sell it to Toyota or Renault, companies that would know how to use Saab.

I think Renault would do Saab some justice!!

VW and DCX and Ford have too many problems to concentrate on reviving Saab. Toyota doesn't need Saab. Honda has it's own issues.

I think there's a lot of potential at Saab. I just wonder if GM has it in them to do what is right for the brand.

[a_v_s]

Originally Posted by surferdude00711

3 GM Brands Seem To Share This Sub-Luxury:

Saab = Rebadged Subarus (Swedenese)
Saturn = Opel (Euro)
Buick = American

Is that too many? I think so. Kill Saab if you ask me. And Pontiac too. crappy Chevy rebadges...

I disagree. Unless you go to China, go anywhere outside the USA/Canada, and talk about Buick or Saturn, and they won't know what you're talking about.

Look at the state of these cars today, right now. The only division of those three, that can legitamately be compared to Acura, Infiniti, and Lexus, without being laughed at, is Saab. Saturn is becoming rebadged Opel/Holden/Vauxhauls. Why do we need a separate brand to do that? Why is pontiac even the performance brand, if Chevy is the one with the vette?

I think life would be better for GM, if their lineup was:

Caddy: Luxury
Saab: Near Luxury/Sport
Chevy: Sport
Saturn: Family (Get rid of no-haggle pricing)

But I'm sure this will never happen....

[griswold44]

I don't think GM is going to kill or sell Saab. It's one of the true global brands GM has. Let's face it Saabs are sold in more markets than Cadillac and if they were to kill Saab and replace it with Cadillac it would take years to get into all those markets and convince buyers Cadillac is as good as Saab. I think Saab is going to be here for a while.

[yoblues]

Saab sales are stagnent in the USA. How are they selling in the rest of the world?

[amsnare]

From all that I have read, there is no question that the entire GM board should resign.
As an American citizen, it is so sad and unnecessary what has happened to GM and our nation.
A new, younger, fresh GM board could learn much from the "new boys on the block" (Saab and Honda)...
I believe GM does indeed have too many brands - this is most safe to say.
Saturn should never have been added, the reasons at that time only sounded good, but were not..
Having seven brands(incl Chevvy trucks and GMC) did work OK for many, many years; no-one was as good as GM in making the same body shell look different for so many brands for so long...
But along came the Corvair, the Nova, the "BOP" line of "compacts", then the Chevelle and then the "SNOVA" or "Novas" line.
Far too many lines and body shells, and I believe the buying public was wising up to all this duplicity..
Ford was able to use more control, keep things simpler, and engineer far better product(Falcon, Mustang, Fairlane, even Pinto and Escort).
Seems like GM thought they could cover the entire market with a blanket - but it turned out to be a wet blanket..
GM did not respect the buying public.

I just hope that it is not too late for GM to go, hat in hand, and ask Saab how things should be done...

[Squachy]

Saab is the only company thats as far away from the "american cars suck ass" perception that GM has.

When u think of Caddy/Chevy/Pontiac/Saturn/GMC/Buick, everyone konws its a Domestic product. Then perception kicks in (and some reality).

But when u think of Saab, most will think its foreign, and some will know its from sweden. They may not realize that they are a part of GM until you tell them.

But the other problem with Saab, is that they only have 2 cars. A large and a midsizer. And the large one has lingered on for who knows how long, and is STILL not redesigned yet. While the 9-3 the midsizer/compact has been redesigned, but i dont think has been advertised much.

[jokuvaan]

1. Saab is able to make better cars than others. *
2. Saab customers are educated and wealthy.
3. Saab has global presence.
4. GM would loose those highly valuable customers for ever, they will sit inside of American car only if straitjacked and drugged.
5. What is wrong with Saab is much of GM's own fault, they made simultaneously investment and cost cutting, it was total loony toony cartoon with so many axed projects. But sure Saab should have fired people from factory in late 90's, but Sweden = social country, they didnt...

Sales in Europe:
http://www.gmeurope.com/1122.html there is a pdf doc.

* I time to time try to explain different reasons why Saabs are better, time for yet another quick one:

In 9-5 model Saab started to use door locks that if forced would just start to rotate, it was not possible to break it with turning force. Simply brilliant idea.
Because of this Saab won breaking in test in the UK.

It also won breaking in test in Sweden with 30 cars, pro experts got inside of some cars withing few seconds, only 9-5 lasted full 2min. I'm not sure did they end trying or sledge hammered the lock area completely off.