What Saab's Future Should Look Like

[Talonderiel]

After looking over several forums and visiting many, many dealers and getting their feedback on GM and Saab, I've my own ideas on what Saab should be allowed to do by GM to secure it's future.

9-2x: Return in 2009/2010 as a Saab, from ground up, small compact car to compete with Subaru and Mitsu. I think they were on the right track before..

9-3: Haldex AWD, refined interior, and the Aero offers V6 T @ 260 hp... the 9-3 being the sports sedan, with civility. For purists, bring back the Viggen (maybe by another name) with a V6 TT @ 300 - 360 hp on top of Aero ammenities.

9-4x: SUV of the brand... Much like the SEMA 2006 picture posted elswhere on site, but with turbo engine options. I don't think a Saab should have a v8 engine when turbo v6's can make the same power and retain fuel economy or a non-American quirkiness

9-5: Haldex AWD, refined interior... I4 turbo @ 300 hp and a V6 TT @ 360+ hp. This would put the luxury car of Saab in competition with the Bmw, Audi, and Mercedes... and leave the Asian market behind it.


Those are my thoughts.... Not that GM would ever do all of them, but the 9-3 and 9-5 are a future must ::crosses fingers::... What are yours thoughts?

[mgescuro]

Originally Posted by Talonderiel

9-2x: Return in 2009/2010 as a Saab, from ground up, small compact car to compete with Subaru and Mitsu. I think they were on the right track before..

No. Audi A3 is and should be its competitor.

Originally Posted by Talonderiel

9-3: Haldex AWD, refined interior, and the Aero offers V6 T @ 260 hp... the 9-3 being the sports sedan, with civility. For purists, bring back the Viggen (maybe by another name) with a V6 TT @ 300 - 360 hp on top of Aero ammenities.

Yes. 9-3 is Epsilon II in the coming years. Civility? What do you mean by that.

Originally Posted by Talonderiel

9-4x: SUV of the brand... Much like the SEMA 2006 picture posted elswhere on site, but with turbo engine options. I don't think a Saab should have a v8 engine when turbo v6's can make the same power and retain fuel economy or a non-American quirkiness

Sounds fine. THe SEMA picture of 9-7X is disgusting. ANd is off kilter from what Saab should be. DUB shouldn't do a 9-7X. It's the wrong styling.

Originally Posted by Talonderiel

9-5: Haldex AWD, refined interior... I4 turbo @ 300 hp and a V6 TT @ 360+ hp. This would put the luxury car of Saab in competition with the Bmw, Audi, and Mercedes... and leave the Asian market behind it.

Fine. Saabs are supposed to compete with teh Germans. Saabs compete with Acura and Infiniti, and they're competent competitors.

Originally Posted by Talonderiel

Those are my thoughts.... Not that GM would ever do all of them, but the 9-3 and 9-5 are a future must ::crosses fingers::... What are yours thoughts?

Stay tuned for GMI's "Revitalization in Action" feature, with our proposed Saab lineup.

[Talonderiel]

By civility, I mean a bit of refinement and luxury when compared to the standard american concept of "sports". Ive driven muscle cars mostly, and their ride quality, interior design and ammenities are very rough... granted when I was doing 11's in the quarter, I could care less :P

I hope that clears up my off-norm verbage.

[adaca]

The tough part is that Saab is becoming less and less differentiated from the rest of GM. Yet the cost of developing unique drivetrains or internal components makes it hard to justify going alone.

I guess Saab should emphasize its Swedishness by pushing for the Ikea-style interior design, and at the same time, maybe useful to develop one or more unique engine setups, perhaps by turbocharging existing GM engines, and be exclusively using that within GM. Those engines can be applied to all of the Aero and Viggen models to get more volume out of them, but retain exclusiveness by reserving them only for Saab. Maybe the pick is the LY7 turbocharged to 360hp.

I'm not sure if I want a highly turbocharged I4 9-5. Less powerful, mildly turbocharged I4s maybe useful for lower end models in markets where people are used to less powerful engines. But it should be some kind of V6 for the US market.

There's room for a larger vehicle to replace the 9-7X as well.

[uboys]

Originally Posted by adaca

The tough part is that Saab is becoming less and less differentiated from the rest of GM. Yet the cost of developing unique drivetrains or internal components makes it hard to justify going alone.

I guess Saab should emphasize its Swedishness by pushing for the Ikea-style interior design, and at the same time, maybe useful to develop one or more unique engine setups, perhaps by turbocharging existing GM engines, and be exclusively using that within GM. Those engines can be applied to all of the Aero and Viggen models to get more volume out of them, but retain exclusiveness by reserving them only for Saab. Maybe the pick is the LY7 turbocharged to 360hp.

I'm not sure if I want a highly turbocharged I4 9-5. Less powerful, mildly turbocharged I4s maybe useful for lower end models in markets where people are used to less powerful engines. But it should be some kind of V6 for the US market.

There's room for a larger vehicle to replace the 9-7X as well.

Furthermore, Saab should be at the forefront of diesel and hybrid technology at GM--particularly since that is particularly important to its demographic as well.
You are right.
They should really use design to stand out from their competitors.

[mgescuro]

Originally Posted by Talonderiel

By civility, I mean a bit of refinement and luxury when compared to the standard american concept of "sports". Ive driven muscle cars mostly, and their ride quality, interior design and ammenities are very rough... granted when I was doing 11's in the quarter, I could care less :P

I hope that clears up my off-norm verbage.

Gotcha. When I read "Civility" I read that as meaning Saab toning down the understeer, which makes for an "exciting" driving experience. It's just enough to keep you on your toes. The 9-3 already has the Re-Axs system to prevent understeer, by turning the rear wheels slightly in the opposite direction of the front wheels.

I definitely suggest driving a 9-3 or 9-5. I think you'll be quite surprised by the performance of these cars.

Originally Posted by adaca

I'm not sure if I want a highly turbocharged I4 9-5. Less powerful, mildly turbocharged I4s maybe useful for lower end models in markets where people are used to less powerful engines. But it should be some kind of V6 for the US market.

I see this as actually the differentiating point of the 9-5's HOT I4's. They feel like a V8, or at least a very powerful V6. And it gives you the fuel economy of a 4-cyl.

V6's are coming, mainly because of a perception issue. But if you notice the turbo V6 in the 9-3, it's a low displacement V6, that still cranks 250+ HP.

Drive the 9-5 with the 2.3L at 260HP. I think you'd be surprised by the response of the engine. It needs more HP, but it's FWD, and there's really only so much you can do.

[yoblues]

I like Saabs but how much money is Saab making GM????? You can't go on throwing money away on products that don't sell. GM does not have that kind of cash flow....I have seen less than half a dozen Saabs on the road where I live over the past year.

[mgescuro]

Originally Posted by yoblues

I like Saabs but how much money is Saab making GM????? You can't go on throwing money away on products that don't sell. GM does not have that kind of cash flow....I have seen less than half a dozen Saabs on the road where I live over the past year.

Saab is profitable. Saab is experiencing record sales.
Saab's engineering team is working on all facets of GM's safety and engine technologies, including the plug-in hybrid and E85/E100 engine systems.

Saab is doing quite well for GM.

[Talonderiel]

Originally Posted by mgescuro

I definitely suggest driving a 9-3 or 9-5. I think you'll be quite surprised by the performance of these cars.

I have been driving the recent 06 and a few 07's 9-3 and 9-5, as I'm determining what my next car will be. They do have an awesome feel to them and more power then I was expecting. Understeer is something new to me, I grew up driving RW muscle cars and have become adept to adjusting to oversteer and the fun that it brings . Nevertheless, I'll be buying a MY08 or MY09, depends on how much the Reserves pay me and if I get a better college job then I have now.

The post was simply my dreams of making Saab even more of a killer car company. I've always loved Saab, and have no doubt that in a few years their cars will be a mixture of , and... which is what makes for an amazing ride.

[mgescuro]

Originally Posted by Talonderiel

I have been driving the recent 06 and a few 07's 9-3 and 9-5, as I'm determining what my next car will be. They do have an awesome feel to them and more power then I was expecting. Understeer is something new to me, I grew up driving RW muscle cars and have become adept to adjusting to oversteer and the fun that it brings . Nevertheless, I'll be buying a MY08 or MY09, depends on how much the Reserves pay me and if I get a better college job then I have now.

THe new 9-5 and potentially 9-3 is due next year. I'm excited to see what they've got up their sleeves. All we're pretty much assured of is that it's going to be on the new Epsilon II platform and will have AWD capabilities. What we've seen from the Saab concepts is really promising: the Aero-X, the BioPower engines, the plug-in hybrid, hybrid BioPower, etc.

Originally Posted by Talonderiel

The post was simply my dreams of making Saab even more of a killer car company. I've always loved Saab, and have no doubt that in a few years their cars will be a mixture of , and... which is what makes for an amazing ride.

I agree. Definitely stay tuned for the "Revitalization in Action" feature, where we propose a future Saab lineup.

[Quickening]

I can't wait for the MY09/MY10 9-3 on EpII. I will be all over that for my college graduation car

[HoeyHimself]

Of all the divisions, Saab seems most comfortable and defined, Saab is very unmistakable...a Saab is a Saab. I don't worry about Saab too much, for being differant, Saab isnt very risky. To me, Saab is the tech savvy sophisticated car..aslong as they keep going with the forumla they use, their future looks good to me.

[mgescuro]

Originally Posted by Quickening

I can't wait for the MY09/MY10 9-3 on EpII. I will be all over that for my college graduation car

Your 9-3 will be 5 years old by then. It's still young!!
Mine will be 9-10 years old.
Wish I got a Saab when I graduated.

[HoeyHimself]

Originally Posted by mgescuro

Your 9-3 will be 5 years old by then. It's still young!!
Mine will be 9-10 years old.
Wish I got a Saab when I graduated.

It's strange because I think of 99s and 00s as new cars still..even though they are 7-8years old, I just think of them as only a couple years old. Maybe its because I am 20 and it was about 8 years ago that I really started getting into keeping up with the auto industry, but I think about that from time to time...I dont know if that is relivent to the conversation, but just something that was on my mind.

[mgescuro]

Originally Posted by HoeyHimself

It's strange because I think of 99s and 00s as new cars still..even though they are 7-8years old, I just think of them as only a couple years old. Maybe its because I am 20 and it was about 8 years ago that I really started getting into keeping up with the auto industry, but I think about that from time to time...I dont know if that is relivent to the conversation, but just something that was on my mind.

99's and 00's are still fairly new. But I guess you can say they're "Middle aged." For me, I tend to keep my cars long periods of time. My Saturn I had for 11 years. My Saab, I"ve had for 6 and counting. I want a car that holds up well. I'm a hard driver, but I take care of my cars. THey still look new, but they're high mileage.

I'd love to change my car every 3-5 years, but it really isn't worth it.