My/Your Ideal Saab Lineup

AmericanRevolution · 01-15-2005, 10:35 PM

Feel free to post your lineups in here!

Ok, I've got some ranting to do with how GM is handling Saab, but I'll just make a quite note here on what GM needs to do: Fork over the money to Saab and let their engineers and designers go to work! They're all about unique Euro-brand alternativeness, so let them be it! Ok, now to my lineup...

9-1 $25,000-$36,000
Saab's answered to the A3, this little three door hatch is available with a 200 HP 2.4L, upgraded 260 HP 2.0L turbo n the Aero. Performance and style, with the new Saab face, is what this little guy is about! Based on the Delta II, it gets standard AWD. Also available is the Mightytec 1600 diesel, good for 140 HP and 280 lbs-tq.
The Viggen performance model recieves obvious performance upgrades with a 300 HP turbo 2.0L Ecotec, larger brakes, wider and grippier tires, a track-tuned suspension, and more aggressive styling.

9-3 $29,000-$40,000
Standard AWD help put this against the A4 by Audi. The engines are as follows: a 260 HP 3.6L as the base engine while the Aero recieves a 310 HP DI 3.6L V6. Also available is the Mightytec 1800 with 170 HP and 300 lbs-tq. Based on the Epsilon II.
Viggen recieves a 360 hp turbo DI 3.6L V6, a track tuned suspension, more aggressive styling, and larger brakes accompanied by wider and grippier tires.

9-4 $30,000-$40,000
Kappa coupe, a quick and nimble RWD compact coupe keeping with the new Saab design. Optional AWD. A 2.4L making 200 HP brings up the base side, while the Aero gains a 260 HP turbo 2.0L Ecotec. A tight suspension helps keep this little car on the road.
The Viggen performance model recieves obvious performance upgrades with a 300 HP turbo 2.0L Ecotec, larger brakes, wider and grippier tires, a track-tuned suspension, and more aggressive styling.

9-5 $38,000-$49,000
Keep with the new brand face, the 9-5 is a larger car keeping about the same size as the current 9-5. Basically, a Saab update on the only all-Saab car in their lineup currently. Standard AWD. Power comes from a based DI 304 HP 3.6L engine while the Aero gains the turbo DI 3.6L good for 360 HP. Also available is the Mightytec 1800, good for 170 HP and 300 lbs-tq.
Viggen gains a twincharged, 460 HP DI 4.0L V6, a bored out 3.6L. In addition to that is the obvious performance and styling upgrades.

9-7 $30,000-$41,000
Short wheelbase Lambda crossover in two and four-door forms. Smaller and lighter than its larger Lambda siblings, this vehicle is all about being a quick, nimble midsize crossover that keeps with the Saab design. Standard AWD. Standard DI 3.6L V6 with 304 HP, while the Aero gains the turbo DI 3.6L V6 good for 375 HP and a sportier suspension.

Engines Employed:
----------------------------------------
Diesel's:
Mightytec 1600's: 1
Mightytec 1800's: 2

V6's:
DI Aluminum DOHC 3.6's:: 3
DI Turbo Aluminum DOHC 3.6's:: 3
Aluminum DOHC 3.6's:: 1
DI Turbo Aluminum DOHC 4.0's:: 1

I4's:
DI Turbo Ecotec 2.0's: 2
DI Ecotec 2.4's: 2

Platforms Employed:
----------------------------------------
Kappa's: 1
Delta II's: 1
Epsilon II's: 2
Lambda's: 1

mgescuro · 01-16-2005, 04:34 AM

9-2/9-X
I think these would be good cars. They just shouldn't be rebadged.
Arc, Aero, Viggen

9-3/9-3X
Sedan -- Arc, Linear, Aero, Viggen
Covertible -- Arc, Linear, Aero, Viggen
Wagon -- ARc, Linear, Aero

9-4X
Kappa Coupe -- Linear, Aero

9-5/9-5X
Sedan -- Arc, Linear, Aero, Viggen
Wagon -- Arc, Linear, Aero

9-6X
Lambda Crossover -- Arc, Aero

9-7X
NExt-Gen GMT360 -- Arc, Aero
NO rebadges!!

9-8X
Super Sedan -- Arc, Aero
Super Coupe -- Arc, Aero
Low-end S-class/7-Series fighter.

AmericanRevolution · 01-17-2005, 03:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mgescuro

9-2/9-X
I think these would be good cars. They just shouldn't be rebadged.
Arc, Aero, Viggen

9-3/9-3X
Sedan -- Arc, Linear, Aero, Viggen
Covertible -- Arc, Linear, Aero, Viggen
Wagon -- ARc, Linear, Aero

9-4X
Kappa Coupe -- Linear, Aero

9-5/9-5X
Sedan -- Arc, Linear, Aero, Viggen
Wagon -- Arc, Linear, Aero

9-6X
Lambda Crossover -- Arc, Aero

9-7X
NExt-Gen GMT360 -- Arc, Aero
NO rebadges!!

9-8X
Super Sedan -- Arc, Aero
Super Coupe -- Arc, Aero
Low-end S-class/7-Series fighter.

I liked some of your ideas, so I used a few and modified them to be more of what I think it should be...

mgescuro · 01-17-2005, 04:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AmericanRevolution

Same car as the concept 9-3x that drops the "x". 9-3x performance version gets more power on a slightly larger-displacement engine with taunter suspension and sporty design add-ons.

The "X" denoted 4WD models. Performance models are denoted by "Aero." High-performance models are "Viggen."

alfetta · 01-17-2005, 07:29 AM

First of all stop alienating Saab followers with bland styling. It used to build characterful cars but suddenly seemed directionless after ending production of the Saab 900Mk1. The cars are no longer distinctive and aren't equiped with some nice novelties which Saab was renowned for.
They have to stop making a Saab which is part Swedish while the other part desperate wants to be a BMW. The fact that a car has a pure design philosophy with tapered panels, airflowed rear ends, exaggerated-curve windscreen is unique. If I want to buy a bland model I allready would buy a German car. New Saabs have many good qualities such as the safety features and the
engines are trully a delight but they must revive the wonderful Swedish curves to make
an actrivtive totall pakckage which ouzes individuality.
Volvo relies on it's straight-lined silhouette and the V70 is a classic Swedish design and
no one could ever call the V70 a stiff Eurobox. New Saabs incorporate some Saab features but the rest could be called the German school. The sports sedan is showing it's Opel relation
and that is the kiss of death.
I find this totaly incomprehensible because is has lost those lovely lines from the old Saabs.
Surely a Swedish company now being owned by GM could do and must do better.
America is a big market for Saab and why do they stick with mundane and antikidnap designs for the style-conciousnes American? Saab is a choice for the individualist.
The Porsche 911 still has a great following and partly because it's looking great with the simple flowing lines and the typical rearend. Saab has started the silhouette and why do they change
the effective lines??? Styling was one of the reasons why Saab had deserved a living.
It's not about incorporating 4WD, installing a big V6 or dieselengine under the bonnet.
That's marketing. Saab has to show some creativity and a different approach to building a car
from the GM bin. GM have developed a nice car with the 9-5 and the new sports sedan but
at this point the new cars are hardly seductive. My five eurocents..

carllevine · 01-17-2005, 11:43 AM

9-2: 1965-style retro Saab 96 sedan or 95 wagon on Delta platform. AWD available, but front wheel drive is a must. Saab-Ecotec 2.0 Turbo engines in varying levels of performance. 5 or 6 speed manual with optional Automatic. Manual can be specified with Column Shifter for nostalgic purposes. Model nomenclature: Deluxe and Super.

9-3: Mild refresh of the current 9-3 series on Epsilon2 chassis with styling cues from Saab 99/900 series cars. More or less, a modern interpretation of what the 99/900 would have been in 2006. 2.0T (the 210hp one) is the base engine, a slightly more insane 2.0T ~250 hp in the middle and a 2.8T V6 at the top besting the Saturn Aura with just over 300hp. Reintroduce the hatchback and coupe. Names: S, Turbo, Aero.

9-4: Small two seat coupe/roadster reminiscent of a Sonett on Kappa. It will be called as such. 2.0t and 2.0T for engines.

9-5: Time for Saab to shine. A new 9-5 is due out in a few years. My interpretation would be similar to the car that is out today with much softer lines, more power, optional AWD for the people who get a false sense of security from it, lots of high-tech gadgetry. Built on stretched Epsilon2. Automatic transmission optional. Maintain current naming structure.

9-6: An Audi Allroad-type wagon based on the 9-5 wagon filled with luxury and power. All Wheel Drive is standard.

9-7: Sigma, like it was supposed to be all along.

9-8: If the market desires it, a large 7-series fighting Saab with Turbo V8's.

Carl
99 9-5 SE

AmericanRevolution · 01-17-2005, 04:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alfetta

First of all stop alienating Saab followers with bland styling. It used to build characterful cars but suddenly seemed directionless after ending production of the Saab 900Mk1. The cars are no longer distinctive and aren't equiped with some nice novelties which Saab was renowned for.
They have to stop making a Saab which is part Swedish while the other part desperate wants to be a BMW. The fact that a car has a pure design philosophy with tapered panels, airflowed rear ends, exaggerated-curve windscreen is unique. If I want to buy a bland model I allready would buy a German car. New Saabs have many good qualities such as the safety features and the
engines are trully a delight but they must revive the wonderful Swedish curves to make
an actrivtive totall pakckage which ouzes individuality.
Volvo relies on it's straight-lined silhouette and the V70 is a classic Swedish design and
no one could ever call the V70 a stiff Eurobox. New Saabs incorporate some Saab features but the rest could be called the German school. The sports sedan is showing it's Opel relation
and that is the kiss of death.
I find this totaly incomprehensible because is has lost those lovely lines from the old Saabs.
Surely a Swedish company now being owned by GM could do and must do better.
America is a big market for Saab and why do they stick with mundane and antikidnap designs for the style-conciousnes American? Saab is a choice for the individualist.
The Porsche 911 still has a great following and partly because it's looking great with the simple flowing lines and the typical rearend. Saab has started the silhouette and why do they change
the effective lines??? Styling was one of the reasons why Saab had deserved a living.
It's not about incorporating 4WD, installing a big V6 or dieselengine under the bonnet.
That's marketing. Saab has to show some creativity and a different approach to building a car
from the GM bin. GM have developed a nice car with the 9-5 and the new sports sedan but
at this point the new cars are hardly seductive. My five eurocents..

As I said, my lineup consists of Saab's concept design... go to their site and look at the concept, because apparently you haven't seen it... they AREN'T bland...

alfetta · 01-18-2005, 02:47 AM

@American Revolution

I have read the ideal line-up but I have a totall different view what GM needs to be doing with Saab. I live in the Netherlands and we get the Saab 9-3 Sport Sedan and the 9-5.
Both cars have been crash tested and got top ratings, an owner survey showed Saab drivers
are one of the most satisfied customers with totall reliability. Every time Saab will be listed in
the top ten among Japanese manufacturers and BMW.
In my opinion GM has developed a good car. Also in car magazines Saab gets good reviews
and I believe that in the publics opinion Saab is regarded as a good car.
But....most people dislike their styling which lacks appeal. Even in car magazines journalists
remind us of Saab used to make bold and daring cars and they were uplifting to own.
Nowadays they produce a mainstream car.
GM can offcourse shows it's muscles and equippe Saabs with 4WD and hi-preformance engines
but I think such an operation will hardly be effective. They need to fork out how to design a
Saab. There is nothing wrong with the cars but it's the package. They have to move it away
stylingwise from Opel and give it more personality so people will no longer make jokes about owning an Opel. Even worse..perspective buyers might perceive it as an Opel.

SUV is a car for the U.S. market. The BMW X5 is the best seller SUV in the Netherlands
with over 900 cars sold...there isn't a market for most cars on the line-up. However we do have
a great market for cars like the Saab 9-3/9-5 and problems are styling and reminiscence to
Opel. That they do have to change. These modells have enough kit, power and don't need
a 4WD. Saab's needs to be a styling icon (even a bit quirky), innovative engineering ( idiosyncratics),character and uses fine materials. That's Swedish quality. That's a proper Saab.

AmericanRevolution · 01-18-2005, 02:59 AM

As I've mentioned before, I am suggesting design cues, especially on the front end, and interior, from their concept cars: http://www.saabusa.com/saabjsp/concepts/index.jsp

alfetta, yes, I agree, they're great cars, but they need to do the bold and daring designs like they use to... I really agree, but GM needs to let them do it... I want them to... and as you can see in the concepts, Saab designers can be VERY daring and bold... and I like what I see...

jokuvaan · 01-18-2005, 04:23 PM

About adding new models.

Saab needs sportscar, but there has to be also, a really fast version, that is more about speed, less about "fun".

9-8 would be either very expensive phaeton killer project or some Cadillac modificated by Saab. Next 9-5 will most likely be lifted a bit bigger like the grazy trend goes.
So a "Low end" 9-8 could be too near it.

And what comes to design, first Saab car was totally different than any other at the time, but the reason was WINDTUNNEL. And thats the way it should be. Form following function. Spiced with some scandinavian design and common sense.

Never wondered why some buttoms are way they are on the control panel?
Swedish (ex)test pilot was responsible for that. Might still be today. Thats why also there is dark colors, I'ts about reflection of light.
Also nightpanel is not a funny gimmick, its a tool.

Saab really does not need more models that are already present or known to come. Focus should be making those cars better than competition.

V6, awd and so on. New 1.9 diesel made a very big boost countries like England.
You cant just make a "model", ppl wont buy model they buy spesific, propeties or what ever the correct word is. And model is just a shell/cortex.

mgescuro · 01-18-2005, 04:44 PM

Quote: