GM light trucks should get Cummins ISF 2.8L diesel

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Thread: GM light trucks should get Cummins ISF 2.8L diesel

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    1.8 Liter ECOTEC whitgallman's Avatar
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    GM light trucks should get Cummins ISF 2.8L diesel

    GM would be wise to line up the Cummins 2.8L ISF diesel engine for light duty 1/2 ton trucks.
    160hp and 266 ft-lb torque. It would provide super fuel mileage with a 5 speed transmission.
    The EPA ratings would have to be worked out but it carries a Euro 4 emmissions rating already.
    Dodge had a great run with the Cummins "B" series 5.9L engines.
    This is the super engine that could bring GM light trucks to the lead in sales.

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    Re: GM light trucks should get Cummins ISF 2.8L diesel

    why? GM has it's own 4.5L Duramax that was designed andmost everything was ready to go except the current economy crissis

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    1.8 Liter ECOTEC whitgallman's Avatar
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    Re: GM light trucks should get Cummins ISF 2.8L diesel

    the 4.5 L Duramax is a" V-8 diesel engine is expected to deliver class-leading refinement, horsepower and torque and fulfill multiple vehicle applications with ratings in excess of 310 horsepower and 520 lb-ft of torque."
    We are not in a horse power race anymore people. The people that designed the V-8 4.5L Duramax did not have to pay for their own fuel. Us diesel drivers had to pay nearly $5 a gallon last summer and fall.
    My 1997 Chevy Tahoe had a gas 350 cid engine and got between 13 and 16 mpg. This Cummins ISF has the same output in a much smaller and more thermally efficient engine.
    With the 4.5 Duramax you're carrying the weight around all day for the priviledge of having bragging rights for twice as much horsepower and torque that you will not come close to needing on any given real day. A half of a DuraMax 4.5L would be plenty of power and half the weight but OLD GM would not consider it. Find something other than horsepower and torque to base your ego on.
    Competition for new truck sales is going to be based on costs and fuel economy. Buyers of trucks for parts delivery, the government and meter readers will look at FUEL ECONOMY. They are not going to buy a light duty truck with the 4.5L V-8 Duramax in it. It has more weight and horsepower than they need. They will go to the Indian company Tata.
    Cummins engines have a great reputation that GM could use a little of right now.
    I've got a 2.8L turbo diesel in a Jeep Liberty that I can get 30 mpg out of. It weighs 4,300#. It can tow 5,000#.

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    Re: GM light trucks should get Cummins ISF 2.8L diesel

    Quote Originally Posted by whitgallman View Post
    the 4.5 L Duramax is a" V-8 diesel engine is expected to deliver class-leading refinement, horsepower and torque and fulfill multiple vehicle applications with ratings in excess of 310 horsepower and 520 lb-ft of torque."
    We are not in a horse power race anymore people. The people that designed the V-8 4.5L Duramax did not have to pay for their own fuel. Us diesel drivers had to pay nearly $5 a gallon last summer and fall.
    My 1997 Chevy Tahoe had a gas 350 cid engine and got between 13 and 16 mpg. This Cummins ISF has the same output in a much smaller and more thermally efficient engine.
    With the 4.5 Duramax you're carrying the weight around all day for the priviledge of having bragging rights for twice as much horsepower and torque that you will not come close to needing on any given real day. A half of a DuraMax 4.5L would be plenty of power and half the weight but OLD GM would not consider it. Find something other than horsepower and torque to base your ego on.
    Competition for new truck sales is going to be based on costs and fuel economy. Buyers of trucks for parts delivery, the government and meter readers will look at FUEL ECONOMY. They are not going to buy a light duty truck with the 4.5L V-8 Duramax in it. It has more weight and horsepower than they need. They will go to the Indian company Tata.
    Cummins engines have a great reputation that GM could use a little of right now.
    I've got a 2.8L turbo diesel in a Jeep Liberty that I can get 30 mpg out of. It weighs 4,300#. It can tow 5,000#.
    For some unknown reason GM decided that we shouldn't have light duty trucks with diesel engines. They aren't putting 4.5 duramax or any other into their 1/2 Ton trucks until maybe five years after Mahindra proves people will buy one.
    I would buy GM 1/2 ton diesels for my business (currently use Ridgeline) requiring hauling and 3500# towing, if they would make them.

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    Re: GM light trucks should get Cummins ISF 2.8L diesel

    Quote Originally Posted by whitgallman View Post
    I've got a 2.8L turbo diesel in a Jeep Liberty that I can get 30 mpg out of. It weighs 4,300#. It can tow 5,000#.
    Bit of difference in size. The Silverado weighs have a ton more and has double that tow rating. GM also has its own 3.0L diesel for lighter vehicles.

    For a comparison, it'd be like trying to put the 1.8 from the Aveo in your Impala.
    Last edited by benroethig; 06-18-2009 at 11:51 AM.

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    Re: GM light trucks should get Cummins ISF 2.8L diesel

    Quote Originally Posted by andretti View Post
    For some unknown reason GM decided that we shouldn't have light duty trucks with diesel engines.
    I think they just simply ran short of R&D money.
    My 1988 Chevy S10, 2001 Chevy Silverado, and 1976 Chevy K10

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    Re: GM light trucks should get Cummins ISF 2.8L diesel

    Quote Originally Posted by RamJet502 View Post
    I think they just simply ran short of R&D money.
    What R&D is required when they already have the 4.5 litre diesel and a 3.0 litre in europe?

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    Re: GM light trucks should get Cummins ISF 2.8L diesel

    Quote Originally Posted by benroethig View Post
    Bit of difference in size. The Silverado weighs have a ton more and has double that tow rating. GM also has its own 3.0L diesel for lighter vehicles.

    For a comparison, it'd be like trying to put the 1.8 from the Aveo in your Impala.
    Correction: 2009 Silverado 1500 weighs 4550# (GM's website spec's) versus the Liberty at 4300# pretty close in weight!

    I contend that there is a bigger market for 1/2 ton trucks that can tow 5000# and get high 27 to 30 MPG, than ones that tow 10,000# but get 10-14MPG

    GM will be playing catchup again when Mahindra shows there is a market for light trucks with diesels. I just hope it doesn't take 5-6 years for GM to get to market on this one.

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    1.8 Liter ECOTEC whitgallman's Avatar
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    Re: GM light trucks should get Cummins ISF 2.8L diesel

    I can make my Diesel Jeep weigh 4550# by loosing 20# and then getting in it:-).
    I had a 4.3L V6 (not turbo) diesel in my 1985 Cadi that I got 40 mpg out of on some long road runs. It blew head gaskets at about 95k miles though.

    The EPA rules are the big reason the US has not seen many home grown small diesels.

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    2.4 Liter SIDI ECOTEC WilliamBos's Avatar
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    Re: GM light trucks should get Cummins ISF 2.8L diesel

    It does not need the Cummins. Bring on the 4.5L, as I would actually buy one if they do. I would NOT buy one that is Cummins powered - Cannot stand Cummins. They are not superior in anyway.

    JMHO.
    Thanks & Take care,

    Will


    2004 GMC 1500CC Z71 SLT

    320,000 km/200,000 miles and counting.

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    1.8 Liter ECOTEC whitgallman's Avatar
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    Re: GM light trucks should get Cummins ISF 2.8L diesel

    Will,
    Your personal preferences are as influenial as mine are. The 4.5L V-8 GM diesel will be as popular as that 4.3L V-6 diesel in the '85 Cadi I had.
    I went to a class on diesel engine design at Southwest Research Inst. in the late '90's. Engineers were there from GE Locomotive, John Deere, Caterpillar and a couple of others. The class instructors and half of the class participants had worked for Cummins in the past. Cummins made sure their engineers spent 10% of their time in training on engine design.
    My GM 5.7L diesel lasted 75k miles before the crank broke. My '85 GM 4.3L V-6 diesel blew a head gasket at 95K miles. They each left me on the side of the road numerous times. There are numerous first generation Cummins powered Dodge pickups on Craigs List with more than 500k miles. My 1990 Cummins Ram Dodge has never been towed.
    When the compression ratio of an engine gets much above 10:1 as in a diesel, you want an in-line engine rather than "V" for longevity so the cylinder bore doesn't become oval. Combustion forces force the piston into the lower part of the cylinder bore.

    Chrysler will cancel its contract with Cummins Inc. for the light-duty diesel engine planned for the Dodge Ram 1500 pickup. Chrysler disclosed the termination as part of a group of supplier rejections filed Wednesday in U.S. Bankruptcy Court. The engine was originally scheduled for delivery in the 2010 model year. Cummins had not expected the automaker, which emerged from Chapter 11 last week, to assume the agreement, said Mark Land, a spokesman for the engine maker. "We're OK with it," Land said, adding the contract was signed in 2006. "Obviously a lot's changed in Chrysler's world and the world at large since then." In January, Chrysler said it was delaying the introduction of the diesel light-duty Ram until at least 2011. Frank Klegon, then Chrysler's executive vice president of product development, cited stricter federal emissions standards and the high cost of diesel fuel in announcing the change.
    Last edited by whitgallman; 06-20-2009 at 08:14 PM.

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    Re: GM light trucks should get Cummins ISF 2.8L diesel

    I never bought the idea the V type engines were less robust than in-lines. All your large locomotives, both G.E. and EMD, are V-type, 12, 16, or 20 cylinder diesels. Years ago, Detroit sold both an 6 in-line 6-71 and a V-6 6V-71, and those engines were identical in output and reliability. The V-6 was lighter and shorter. Pistons are forced more to one side in any engine due to pin offset, and the geatest amount of taper wear is always at the top, not the bottom. Now gasoline engine based diesels were another story, but I don't think the V design was the issue! As for light duty diesels for 1/2 ton trucks and SUV's, my understanding is they are probably dead for a couple of reasons. First, the added expense of meeting the 2010 emissions standards are going to be extremly expensive tp meet, particularly for vehicles under 8,500# GVW. It is possible that a 4.5L Duramax could be a $9,000 option in a 1500 Silverado. If that is the case, how many will be sold? Fuel economy will not be much better than a comparable gasoline engine, so the 4.5L will be no help in meeting future CAFE requirements. GM, Ford, and now Dodge have all reached the same conclusion.

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    1.8 Liter ECOTEC whitgallman's Avatar
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    Re: GM light trucks should get Cummins ISF 2.8L diesel

    By the ISF 2.8L having cleared Euro 4, hasn't Cummins paved the way to getting EPA light duty diesel certs? It would have exhaust after treatment.

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    Re: GM light trucks should get Cummins ISF 2.8L diesel

    Euro4 meets the carbon dioxide requirements, but its has to be Euro6 compliment to meet CA Nitrous oxide standards which are going to be the new national standard.

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    1.8 Liter ECOTEC whitgallman's Avatar
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    Re: GM light trucks should get Cummins ISF 2.8L diesel

    Why did GM go to inline engines I4 & I5 on the small truck engines?

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