Full Size Truck Future, and the GMT-400's

[C/K Man]

Many of you may not remember, but in the early 80's this nation was in a recession. Gasoline prices were quite high. General Motors reacted with new lines of FWD full and mid-size cars that were much more efficient that the models they replaced. And it was also during this time that work began on the GMT-400 series full size light trucks and SUV's. The '73-'87 GM full size trucks were dated, and though they still sold well it was clearly time for some new technology and greater efficiency. The 1988 C/K's delivered. The new trucks were lighter, lower, and narrower than the trucks they replaced, but had more interior room, just as much bed space, higher GVW and towing capacity. Needless to say, they got better fuel economy too. Not only was there less weight to push around, but the new trucks also had much better aerodynamics. Now, fast forward to 2008. We are pretty much in the same boat as we were in 1982. And, the GM full size trucks have grown. The question is do they really need to be as big as they are? Actually, it isn't the new GM trucks that got me thinking about this, it was a new Ford Super Duty my company got this week. This 2008 Ford is a nice truck, but the thing is so ridiculously huge it is funny. It has more leg room than my old '96 Sierra, but I can't say that size brings any other real benefit than that. The Ford's GVW is quite a bit higher, but there is not much difference in payload. What does that tell you? Not surprisingly, the Ford's 5.4L Triton has to work pretty hard to get this mess moving, and in the process so far is getting about the same mileage as my '96 Sierra's 7.4L Vortec! I will note the Ford is probably not broken in yet, but that is still amazing. So, that having been said I think GM needs to look to the past for the future of full size pickup design.

[eurohazard]

A Super Duty with 5.4 V8 is sad. But I think it's probably important to not forget 150/1500 series 1/2 tons shouldn't really be compared to 3/4 ton and 1-tons anyway. Have the 1/2 tons gotten too big? Yes. But the 3/4 and 1-tons need that size and weight (typically weigh 1,000+ lbs more than their 1/2 ton counterparts with similar features) .....those trucks aren't for grocery runs and florists; they tow, and they haul a lot (or at least they're designed to).

[RamJet502]

I think GM made the GMT-900s bigger to compete with Ford and Dodge. My 01 Silverado Z71 looks like a midsize when parked near my cousin's 07 Ram, narrower and a lot lower to the ground. The odd thing is that my regular cab's interior feels gigantic compared to his crew cab's.

[MrCritical]

I didn't see what was wrong with the old body size Silverado. Anyone needing more room should have probably bought a Tahoe.

My sticking point is that if GM hadn't increased the size of the truck and still used the 5.3 with fuel management system they could be getting better fuel mileage.

I have friends with both Ford and Dodge full size half ton trucks. None of them say the truck is getting close to the EPA mileage estimates in city or highway.

On the other hand, those with GM half tons (400) regularly claim better than EPA mileage.

[eurohazard]

Originally Posted by RamJet502

I think GM made the GMT-900s bigger to compete with Ford and Dodge. My 01 Silverado Z71 looks like a midsize when parked near my cousin's 07 Ram, narrower and a lot lower to the ground. The odd thing is that my regular cab's interior feels gigantic compared to his crew cab's.

One possible explaination could be the the column shift, open center that your Chevy has vs. (I am making an assumption) his floor shift truck? Or at least extra center consoles in the way even if it is column shift.

[RamJet502]

Originally Posted by eurohazard

One possible explaination could be the the column shift, open center that your Chevy has vs. (I am making an assumption) his floor shift truck? Or at least extra center consoles in the way even if it is column shift.

His Ram is column shift. It must be that the crew cab takes some room from the front seats for leg room in the back.

[nailhead425]

Unless the Feds change the rules, trucks over 8600 GVWR don't impact CAFE regs, which is why Ford and Dodge have two seperate designs.
That being said there is alot to credit GM for using a lighter weight truck design. GM has the highest payload in the HD segment. The downsides are the reliability and percieved durability. Not that the GM trucks are junk, but the IFS, small tires, low front end bumper height, and light weight tends to support this idea.
GM is going in the right direction with the 1/2 tons. I'd like to see more LD 3/4tons for light construction folks, especially with a 4.5 duramax. Good mileage with city trucks is going to help the GM image. Afterall in the world of 1/2 ton trucks, GM is very tough to beat.

[texassierradude]

My Sierra is averaging 17-18 mpg in mostly city driving, EPA said to expect 15 in the city and 20 hwy. I purchased this truck for what I considered to be its cavernous interior. I am disabled and cannot enter and exit a regular car any longer. I even have problems with the wife's Nox. The point I'm trying to make is not everyone can use small, smaller, smallest vehicles. I'm very very happy with my Sierra.

[JT87]

What GM should do is give the Colorado a proper refresh, and bring it to the size of the Dakota, and keep the price competitive (which it really isn't right about now). A 7,000 towing capacity, like the V8 Dakotas have, would be enough towing than what many need.

The newer 1/2 ton trucks have essentially been over engineered for years, no doubt. And in a market where bigger is better, the bigger truck sells.

[doh]

In Ontario, there are 2 important weights for licencing vehicles.

3000kgs, You can licence it as Personal Use Only.

4500 kgs GVWR, Requires Annual saftey and Annual Emission Testing in Northern Ontario.

In 2003 when I switched from selling GM's to selling Fords, a 2500 GMC crew cab Diesel had a shipping wieght of 2400kgs so you could register it @ 3000 kgs PUO, the same F250 SD had a shipping weight of 2700kgs, meaning that if more than 2 people were in it you would be over the 3000 kgs PUO wieght.

GMs GVWR was 8600lbs Ford's was 8800lbs. Now Ford F250 SD crew diesel has a GVWR of 10000lbs 4550kgs 50 kgs above annual Emissions/saftey are required. Shipping wieght went up to 2850kgs.

[fish factory]

Originally Posted by RamJet502

I think GM made the GMT-900s bigger to compete with Ford and Dodge. My 01 Silverado Z71 looks like a midsize when parked near my cousin's 07 Ram, narrower and a lot lower to the ground. The odd thing is that my regular cab's interior feels gigantic compared to his crew cab's.

I really like my '06 Z-ext. Don't wanna climb into "GraveDigger" everytime I go somewhere. My truck sits up good for me, just right, and I'm over 6'5", ain't nothin' "mid-size" about mine.

IMO, No one builds a half ton as roomy, powerful, economical, and downright comfortable as Chevrolet. Not ford, dodge, nissan toyota or anyone else. Not in at least 28 years (when I switched to Chev pick ups).