What is the plan at Buick?

[Sal Collaziano]

As mentioned earlier, I'm definitely FOR less exterior length with more interior room. I need to be able to stretch out when I drive and when I'm a passenger.. A large trunk is definitely a plus..

As for what I mean when I say I'd like a Genesis Coupe / Infiniti G37 Coupe for Buick (a GNX) - it needs to be something that young people aspire to own. Something just out of reach for "everyone". When I was growing up in my late teens and early 20s (in the late 80s/early 90s), I wanted an Iroc-Z, Trans Am or 5.0 Mustang. I couldn't afford one - but all the lucky kids with wealthy parents had one.. That's the demographic I'm talking about..

[CadiEldo67]

Originally Posted by Bravada

GM spent a few dimes on the new grille for the Lu and gets plenty of bucks back from the tired G-body. Just like Panthers, I expect them to continue indefinitely until the customer base dies off.

Was that said in a literal sense?

[Exploder]

The only US market sedan for less than $60,000 with anywhere near the cabin space of the Hyundai Genesis is the Crown Victoria, and it's a staggering 16 inches longer! If the Crown Victoria was updated to use space as efficiently as a Genesis, you could probably fit a hot tub in there.

Chrysler 300?

[nferr]

Originally Posted by megeebee

Thank you.

I don't know just where this absurd notion that all auto brands everywhere must produce something for young people came from.

As for Lucerne, how are sales still good? I suspect the majority now go to fleets anyway. The plant that builds it is being used for the Volt by November 2010. It will have to be extensively remodeled, so it will most likely close at least 9 months before. There is no other plant designated to take up DTS/Lucerne production. I doubt GM would spend the millons required to continue the old-girls and their ever declining sales numbers, so I would say a short 5-6 month 2010 model year will be their last.

New Lucerne's are being advertised at $21-22,000 in the papers. Year old fleet ones are mid-teens. The LaCrosse is even worse. These cars are horrible image cars for Buick. They're cheap old person cars in most eyes.

[Michael_S]

Originally Posted by Exploder

Chrysler 300?

300C: 196.8 inches long, 74.1 inches wide, 58.4 inches tall
Genesis: 195.9 inches long, 73.4 inches wide, 58.3 inches tall

Spec: 300C | Genesis (inches unless noted otherwise)
Front leg room: 41.8 | 44.3
Rear leg room: 40.2 | 38.6
Front head room: 38.7 | 40.4
Rear head room: 38.0 | 37.7
Front shoulder room: 59.4 | 58.3
Rear shoulder room: 57.7 | 57.9
Front hip room: 55.9 | 54.3
Rear hip room: 55.9 | 54.3
Trunk cubic feet: 15.6 cubic feet | 15.9 cubic feet

Looks like you are correct in terms of real world space. The official cabin space specs give the Genesis a 2.5 cubic foot advantage, but going by the measurements they are extremely close. I imagine only a buyer with a tape measure would notice much of a difference.

On the other hand, the side impact ratings of the 300, even with the airbags, are disappointing: http://www.iihs.org/ratings/ratingsbyseries.aspx?id=533
(The Genesis hasn't been tested by the IIHS yet.) [EDIT] I'm mildly obsessive about crash safety, so if I were to shop for a vehicle in this price range/segment I would opt for a Lincoln MKS. The MKS is smaller inside than the Taurus, so it trails the 300C and Genesis for space as well as power. But crash ratings are stellar. If I wanted to go smaller, the 2008 CTS also scored perfect on crash ratings. But it's far smaller inside than the MKS, let alone the Genesis and 300.

[jmlee0695]

Originally Posted by nsap

The Plan:

Align the Buick China and Buick NA lineups down to the tee.

LaCrosse is on LWB Epsilon II, Regal is on SWB Epsilon II. The Regal HAS NOT been OKed for the US market yet, but likely will be. It will be a rebadged Insignia.

The crap about the Vue being a Buick is not true. Buick will likely get a TE based crossover (ala SRX, 9-4x).

Lucerne is dead. Was going to be replaced by a Zeta car, but that was shelved.

New Enclave in 2012.

Also expect closer ties between Buick and Opel. GM is mulling pulling Opel out of China and giving their products to Buick.

when can we expect the TE cuv and Regal to debut?

[Gerard]

Fine topic.

I've only seen snippets and covered-up shots of the LaCrosse (or its replacement). I don't know what to really make of Buick. I would have to say it is, presently, the weakest brand in the GM lineup. The Enclave, which I hold as a standard in upscale CUVs, is the only bright spot for North American Buick shoppers. It's beautifully appointed and evokes the luxurious spirit that was reflected in the Roadmaster.

Like Olds, I don't see the General's direction for Buick. We all here understand Buick has always been meant to serve as a stepping stone to Cadillac by means of "entry-level" luxury. The whole standard for luxury car costs have really brought about challenges to old orders. GM can no longer overwhelm the competition with an army of marques as it did fifty years ago.

Saturn, which has a great lineup, is just faring miserably. There's rumors here of GM looking to drop Saturn and Opelize Buick. That could work and it could permit better-equipped Opels to come these shores over the lower-priced Saturn brackets. In the long run, I don't see a place for Buick, really. I think GM can live off Chevrolet and Cadillac. All this talk of using Pontiacs as rebadged Chevys gives me little faith in its direction.

Buick's doing great in China, though. Import a Park Avenue!

[wescoent]

The ONLY way Buick could have a chance as a serious Lexus competitor would be to get it OUT of the Pontiac-GMC dealer channel, and pair it with Cadillac.

If I'm going to drop $38,000 on a nicely equipped Lacrosse, and I take it in for service, I DO NOT want to be sitting next to Blue Collar Bob and Brenda who have their GMC Sierra and Pontiac G5 in for service, while sipping sewage coffee and watching Maury on a flickering 15" TV from 1986.

Call me an elitist sod, but when I buy a luxury car, I'm paying for an experience. I could just as easily spend $38,000 at my Lexus dealer for a marshmallow barge ES350, and get treated like a king.

So step one is getting Buick OUT of those dealers, if they're serious.

If they get merged with Cadillac into a common FIRST RATE showroom, and bring a Regal, Lacrosse, Enclave, and Rendezvous (Vue) to the table, the sales will come.

[Hitman1970]

^^^ You are an elitist sod. $38,000 is not what it used to be. I agree that ALL GM dealerships should upgrade the customer waiting areas in the service department.

[wescoent]

Originally Posted by Hitman1970

^^^ You are an elitist sod. $38,000 is not what it used to be. I agree that ALL GM dealerships should upgrade the customer waiting areas in the service department.

Well, I KNOW I'm an elitist sod. People who buy luxury cars tend to be. GM cannot be in the business of egalitarian philosophy. If they want to sell to luxury car consumers, they NEED to pacify the elitist sods.

GM SHOULD upgrade, but if 75% of your customers are buying cheapo Pontiacs and GMCs, WHY would they spend the money?

The fact remains that $38,000 can get me a comparable Lexus with unmatched dealership and customer service experience that you CANNOT get at a BPG dealer.

The days of Buick peddling 3800 column-shifting Centuries and LeSabres are gone.

The Lexus success story in the US is based on 3 things, all of them in equal consideration:

1) Pretty good cars
2) Flawless reliability
3) Unmatched customer service

If Buick wants to compete, they NEED to cover all three, NOT just one or two.

[megeebee]

Originally Posted by wescoent

Well, I KNOW I'm an elitist sod. People who buy luxury cars tend to be. GM cannot be in the business of egalitarian philosophy. If they want to sell to luxury car consumers, they NEED to pacify the elitist sods.

GM SHOULD upgrade, but if 75% of your customers are buying cheapo Pontiacs and GMCs, WHY would they spend the money?

The fact remains that $38,000 can get me a comparable Lexus with unmatched dealership and customer service experience that you CANNOT get at a BPG dealer.

The days of Buick peddling 3800 column-shifting Centuries and LeSabres are gone.

The Lexus success story in the US is based on 3 things, all of them in equal consideration:

1) Pretty good cars
2) Flawless reliability
3) Unmatched customer service

If Buick wants to compete, they NEED to cover all three, NOT just one or two.

Seriously: WESCOENT for car-czar.

You're completely correct here. I am treated like returning royalty at my Cadillac dealer, but I wonder if the average Buick customer is that coddled.

[jmlee0695]

i also agree, Buick should be paired with Cadillac and Saab. Lets GMC and Pontiac go together,and chevy alone

[wescoent]

Originally Posted by megeebee

Seriously: WESCOENT for car-czar.

You're completely correct here. I am treated like returning royalty at my Cadillac dealer, but I wonder if the average Buick customer is that coddled.

This is basic knowledge. A luxury car, as with any luxury brand, is as much about the EXPERIENCE as it is about the product.

Lexus is an excellent target for Buick. Buick needs to provide the Lexus experience, along with a big dollop of shameless American style to differentiate it. I also firmly believe they can do it.

This means a high quality vehicle with rich materials, a premium driving experience, and flawless fit and finish.

This means having a vehicle with NO MECHANICAL FAILURES WHATSOEVER under 100,000 miles, and only requiring routine maintenance.

This means buying your car at a dealer that will treat you like a VIP every step of the way, from purchase to trade-in, and a showroom and service center that feels and looks expensive. Like this one:



The vehicles themselves are only a small part of luxury cars. Buick has made very meaningful strides, but they still have a long way to go if they seriously want to compete with Lexus.

[CadiEldo67]

Originally Posted by wescoent

The ONLY way Buick could have a chance as a serious Lexus competitor would be to get it OUT of the Pontiac-GMC dealer channel, and pair it with Cadillac.

If I'm going to drop $38,000 on a nicely equipped Lacrosse, and I take it in for service, I DO NOT want to be sitting next to Blue Collar Bob and Brenda who have their GMC Sierra and Pontiac G5 in for service, while sipping sewage coffee and watching Maury on a flickering 15" TV from 1986.

Call me an elitist sod, but when I buy a luxury car, I'm paying for an experience. I could just as easily spend $38,000 at my Lexus dealer for a marshmallow barge ES350, and get treated like a king.

So step one is getting Buick OUT of those dealers, if they're serious.

If they get merged with Cadillac into a common FIRST RATE showroom, and bring a Regal, Lacrosse, Enclave, and Rendezvous (Vue) to the table, the sales will come.

GMC is professional grade, haven’t you learned that from all the brain-washing commercials?

If Buick and Cadillac were sold together, I think it would be the end of Buick. Take the CTS vs. the Lucerne, totally out-shined for the money. If Buick was sold alongside Cadillac, what would the point be exactly? Near luxury, and for just a bit more you get this, this, this and this? Not a good idea.

They could, however give B-P-G dealerships a more premium feel. I’d care more about the service than the overall appearance of the dealership.

[Michael_S]

Originally Posted by megeebee

I am treated like returning royalty at my Cadillac dealer,

That's great to hear.

Originally Posted by CadiEldo67

If Buick and Cadillac were sold together, I think it would be the end of Buick. Take the CTS vs. the Lucerne, totally out-shined for the money. If Buick was sold alongside Cadillac, what would the point be exactly? Near luxury, and for just a bit more you get this, this, this and this? Not a good idea.

I'm certain wescoent meant that both:
A. Buick and Cadillac models are sold at the same dealership.
AND
B. The Buick sedan product lineup gets a serious overhaul.

The Enclave would be fine at a Cadillac dealership. It might steal some sales from the SRX and the Escalade, but it would undoubtedly steal sales from other competitors too.

The new LaCrosse would be fine at a Cadillac dealership, if it's anywhere near as good as the previews seem to indicate. Classy looking, space efficient, reasonably fun to drive, good fuel economy with 255 or 280-ish horsepower, etc...

The current LaCrosse or Lucerne? Forget it.