What Improvements Would You Make to the Future DTS Replacement?

[PAULSTS1]

Originally Posted by haleykeek

Rear wheel drive is a must.a 6-speed or possibly a 7-speed transmission.a significantly large V8 with DOD(Displacement on demand).20" wheels and tires.real wood,leather dash,softer materials,silk carpets.rear seat entertainment with television,privacy curtain in the rear,a mini refrigerator in the console.split bucket seats for the rear passengers,and give the top of the line model a 7.2L DOHC V12.Yeah baby!!!!!!!

Haleykeek:

This is for the DT7, not the Flagship Fleetwood replacement (F8). I understand your enthusiasm, but the price has got to start at about $46000, and can't go much over $55000, except for customizations.

I would be interested in seeing what you would recommend considering that price structure.

[asrapid]

Originally Posted by PAULSTS1

Haleykeek:

This is for the DT7, not the Flagship Fleetwood replacement (F8). I understand your enthusiasm, but the price has got to start at about $46000, and can't go much over $55000, except for customizations.

I would be interested in seeing what you would recommend considering that price structure.

What is the competition which DT7 will be aiming at? I mean if future cts will compete against e class, bmw 5 etc (it already does in many fields) i assume DT7 will go on less expensive versions of bmw 7, lexus ls audi A8.
I would like to see GM paying attention on details.
Did you see how lt-5 engine in corvette zr-1 used to look..i want to see same type in cadillac. Not some plastic covers. I know that this also reduce noise etc.but it is better looking without plastic covers.

[PAULSTS1]

Originally Posted by asrapid

I would like to see GM paying attention on details.
Did you see how lt-5 engine in corvette zr-1 used to look..i want to see same type in cadillac. Not some plastic covers. I know that this also reduce noise etc.but it is better looking without plastic covers.

Hi Asrapid:

I don't remember viewing the LT5, ever, it seems Corvette had a lot of engines, much more than I remember. Even though I came originally from a Chevrolet loving family, Corvette was really never on my sales menu. In fact the only one I ever drove I did for professional reasons back in 1972, it was a 1966 Stingray with the split rear window. The car was a torque beast, but by then I preferred the high revving Porsche 911.

If you can find a picture of the LT5, please post it.

Originally Posted by asrapid

What is the competition which DT7 will be aiming at? I mean if future cts will compete against e class, bmw 5 etc (it already does in many fields) i assume DT7 will go on less expensive versions of bmw 7, lexus ls audi A8.

I admit I am somewhat at another disadvantage here, GM isn't identifying what their target is. It was reported months ago, that some DTS owners were chosen to view concept samples, for comparisons and styling evaluations, and that the vast majority of buyers, turned them down! With any car as important to Cadillac's bottom line as is the DTS replacement, something warmed over just won't do! I previously posted a similar issue in the Chrysler thread, and agreed that styling wise Chrysler was floundering.

I would personally like to see DT7 taking on the E class, CLS, and 5 Series, as it's price point is there. I don't think Cadillac can take on the A8, Lexus LS, or BMW 7, at this time, all these cars have had many generations to create their niches. The DT7 will be family transportation of the Luxury genre, and should begin to show the modern world where GM's Luxury Brand is headed. By the introduction (2014) of the Fleetwood or F8-12, then a Flagship should be released without compromise--Aimed at the World's Best; Bentley/Rolls Royce.

Cadillac should allow the CTS to establish it's own sector, unhampered by any direct target, and it should be allowed to make all the money it can.

Does this make sense to you?

[asrapid]

I didn't see it for real (i'm from country where there isn't any dealership for such cars..you can import hummer and escalade but if you wan't something else you have to go in another country to buy it and then imported it in)
lt-5 engine from ZR-1. DOHC V8;32 valves.





But in Europe cars are mostly put in category by its size. Cadillac CTS is bmw 5 size and if i'm not mistaking dts /sts replacement will be s class size. So it will be compared to S class.
If i'm not mistaking STS/DTS repl. will go against cheaper model of A8 ,7 etc and ultralux will go against S class.
If we are talking bentley, Rolls royce then this is another category. We are talking top v12 engine, 200 000+ $ cars here. In this category being cheaper than competition doesn't help.
I'm curious how would people react if GM put this engine in their top model. Yes it would be better if it was DOHC V12 (xv12) but since there isn't any in near future.


http://www.falconerengines.com/v12_bio_1.html

or this or something like it http://www.falconerengines.com/irl_app_1.html

[PAULSTS1]

Thanks Asrapid:

You know funny things happen when we ask. After I typed my last post this morning I watched a Muscle Car TV show on satellite this morning, and what did they show...The LS5 engine. Well, I laughed out loud! It is beautiful, and if it is quiet and refined it could be used in a Cadillac.

About that V12 engine you uploaded, it is a high class act, any car with an engine like that would automatically compete in the World Class catagory. About what you stated about the Bentley/Rolls Royce price point, I agree. But when it comes to Luxury, nothing else come even close. The Mega dollar Maybach is just a pretense, I did get to actually ride in one last year. That is one of the reasons, the German makes haven't fully got me, their just too stark and cold. .Jaguar and even Volvo are warm and comfy

When you evaluate a Cadillac from the 1950's-1960's it was the opulence, the color palets, and all the chrome, even more than the size is what made Cadillac so special. Can you think of another car more special than the 1956 Cadillac Fleetwood Eldorado Brougham? Price adjusted it is still the most expensive production Cadillac sold.

[CadiEldo67]

Here's my "expert" idea for the DTS. First of all, rename it, DTS just sounds stodgy and old. Make the car the 4 door equivalent to the XLR, or what the XLR should be. The STS should be replaced by a CTS-L(extended version CTS) which is basically all the STS is now. And that would leave Cadillac with:

• BTS-placed on Alpha-against bmw 1-series
• CTS-with a sedan/coupe/wagon and extended length version
• XLS-basically a 4 door XLR (after XLR Mce)
• XLR-MCE(flagship of Cadillac and GM)
• Escalade-there will always be celebs that want a full-size SUV

[haleykeek]

Originally Posted by PAULSTS1

Haleykeek:

This is for the DT7, not the Flagship Fleetwood replacement (F8). I understand your enthusiasm, but the price has got to start at about $46000, and can't go much over $55000, except for customizations.

I would be interested in seeing what you would recommend considering that price structure.

yeah,i know,but i want a rear wheel drive platform,and more length.oh and by the way,i am not confused.thank you :-) as for pricing,i woud like to see the base version going for around $47,000 to $62,000.i also think that Cadillac should retool the NorthStar V8 family,and stretch the current V8 to 5.0 litres.it's not too complicated .If not that idea,they could take a walk on the dark-side and drop in their LS series engines(i hope they don't).it would be a cost effective move to keep the car priced pretty low;considering that the NorthStar is a very expensive powerplant.$62K is within easy reach for most americans,who are willing to by a car of this magnitude.

[AndrewGS]

How about a real S-Class competitor? How about a long list of standard tech. goodies? How about some innovation like touch-sensitive panels instead of mechanical buttons for things like window and seat controls, full LCD instrument panel with reconfigurable guages and displays, etc. Things like lane departure warning, blind spot warning, active nightvision, active cruise control, multi-color HUD, four-place seating, quad-zone climate control, power rear seats, multi-contour seats, etc, need to be standard or available.

How about magnetic ride control that offers a traditional, soft Cadillac ride, a firm, connected ride or something in between? You could even change the feel of the steering and throttle with different settings. A high-tech V6 drivetrain needs to be standard with optional V8 and diesel power as well as a two-mode hybrid. There should also be a supercharged V8 V-series that offers stiffer chassis settings, sportier details like real carbon fiber interior trim, heavily-bolstered leather/alcantara seats, alcantara steering wheel, alcantara headliner, etc.

Cadillac needs a full-size flagship sedan more than anything else, especially an "entry-level" model and small crossover. Price shouldn't be a huge issue with Cadillac, so I say a starting price of about $60,000 with a ceiling of about $130,000.

[PAULSTS1]

Originally Posted by haleykeek

yeah,i know,but i want a rear wheel drive platform,and more length.oh and by the way,i am not confused.thank you :-) as for pricing,i woud like to see the base version going for around $47,000 to $62,000.i also think that Cadillac should retool the NorthStar V8 family,and stretch the current V8 to 5.0 litres.it's not too complicated .If not that idea,they could take a walk on the dark-side and drop in their LS series engines(i hope they don't).it would be a cost effective move to keep the car priced pretty low;considering that theNorthStar is a very expensive powerplant.$62K is within easy reach for most americans,who are willing to by a car of this magnitude.

Hello Haleykeek:

The emocons represent me, not the person who is being responded to. I attempt to be fair when questioning another persons posts. There was never an overt attempt made to just disrespect a fellow member. Most of us here are Auto enthusiasts from different walks of life, so there willl be differences of opinions or points of view. These diversities can be interesting and informative. My personal perspective comes from a business background, therefore when posting this is what I can relate to most: the production expenditures vs final sales volumes, more than perhaps personal tastes and wants.

As to DTS Improvements: Why relating to the cost factor is important is because according to sales data; luxury cars (all Brands) sell the largest volume in the $35000-$47500 price range. When cars are priced at $50,000 and above the volume of unit sales goes down. Cadillac (GM) is fighting back but has financial limitations, and currently needs more sales of cars like the CTS, that are expected to sell thousands of units to keep the brand alive. This may mean more models: The Coupe, Wagon, perhaps a convertible. If Cadillac can come up with a DT7 which will bridge the price point to allow a family-sized Cadillac which will also volume sell, dollars can be made.

It is agreed that it would wonderful to have an S Class like Cadillac someday, but in current reality the developmental costs probably would not be recovered from this costly project rapidly enough to avoid a lot of red ink, and possibly placing the entire Corporation in major jeopardy. That is the main reason Bob Lutz announced why the Sixteen would not be produced. It is agreed that a handful of millionaires would purchase the Sixteen, but the total sales volume would be small, making the developmental costs very difficult to recover rapidly enough to keep the product alive, and maybe even Cadillac.


PS: In last weeks California "Orange County Register" newspaper it was reported that all Luxury Car Sales were off 20% (in CA) the first quarter when compared to the previous year.(2007)

[escaladelover]

Originally Posted by PAULSTS1

Hello Haleykeek:

The emocons represent me, not the person who is being responded to. I attempt to be fair when questioning another persons posts. There was never an overt attempt made to just disrespect a fellow member. Most of us here are Auto enthusiasts from different walks of life, so there willl be differences of opinions or points of view. These diversities can be interesting and informative. My personal perspective comes from a business background, therefore when posting this is what I can relate to most: the production expenditures vs final sales volumes, more than perhaps personal tastes and wants.

As to DTS Improvements: Why relating to the cost factor is important is because according to sales data; luxury cars (all Brands) sell the largest volume in the $35000-$47500 price range. When cars are priced at $50,000 and above the volume of unit sales goes down. Cadillac (GM) is fighting back but has financial limitations, and currently needs more sales of cars like the CTS, that are expected to sell thousands of units to keep the brand alive. This may mean more models: The Coupe, Wagon, perhaps a convertible. If Cadillac can come up with a DT7 which will bridge the price point to allow a family-sized Cadillac which will also volume sell, dollars can be made.

It is agreed that it would wonderful to have an S Class like Cadillac someday, but in current reality the developmental costs probably would not be recovered from this costly project rapidly enough to avoid a lot of red ink, and possibly placing the entire Corporation in major jeopardy. That is the main reason Bob Lutz announced why the Sixteen would not be produced. It is agreed that a handful of millionaires would purchase the Sixteen, but the total sales volume would be small, making the developmental costs very difficult to recover rapidly enough to keep the product alive, and maybe even Cadillac.

Not to mention, sports stars, rappers and many others would have enjoyed the Sixteen.

[PAULSTS1]

Originally Posted by escaladelover

Not to mention, sports stars, rappers and many others would have enjoyed the Sixteen.

Hi Escaladelover:

Wouldn't you agree that most of those you have mentioned, which would purchase a $250,000 car would fall into the millionaire catagory?

[asrapid]

I don't think that northstar engine with bigger displacement would be perfect engine. I mean they could get around ,let say, 400 hp without FI. I bet v6 with TT can get even more from that. And GM couldn't use FI on that northstar if they make cylinders walls thiner by making larger bore. GM have to reduce displacement from 4.6 l to 4.4 so they can use supercharger in V series (sts-v and XLR-V). So this new 5.0 l engine couldn't be used for V series and it would make around same power as 3.6 l V6 with TT. They need engine which could make around 400+ HP in basic form but also if they put forced induction it could make around 600 if not even more (for use in top model V).
So they need engine with more power levels. Then they could use v6 for 260-400 hp range and v8 from 430+ to 600+ hp. But it will probably have just first power level(260-400) .If we ever see v6 3.x. l with TT in GM.

[CharlotteFirebird]

Originally Posted by plane

I would manufacture it in Nagoya and put a Lexus emblem on the front and a big bowtie around it.
And then I would run condescending ads showing that women clearly have a deep sexual need for this vehicle, but are too afraid to purchase it, evidenced by the boyfriends and husbands that buy the damn thing at Christmas for the obviously clueless lady.

Funny stuff.

[kgm777]

Originally Posted by asrapid

They need engine which could make around 400+ HP in basic form but also if they put forced induction it could make around 600 if not even more (for use in top model V).

600 hp in the DTS? Just call it the Cadillac WMD.