STS is a DUD

[desmo9]

This morning, I had my first close-up with a 2005 STS on the road. The first thing I noticed was the little old lady behind the wheel, carting around a couple companions on their way to morning bingo. Squarely in Deville's demographic, here she was driving Cadillac's new flagship.

Is it any wonder? This car, to my surprise, is a yawn. I knew it was a softened-up CTS, but didn't realize just how softened. CTS's striking creases at the front fender to hood junction are gone. They make the car, and help define Cadillac's character. And on the STS, they're completely gone. From the side, the car could easily be mistaken for the latest Honda Accord.

I won't nit pick GM's design group for releasing such staleness. It's well understood that the original STS on their boards, which would have been launched a year or two ago, was much more striking. When Bob Lutz arrived, CTS's clay had been frozen, but he ordered the softening of the STS. To lauch a duller car, countless millions were added to the budget, and the car arrived very late. Imagine if Lutz had arrived a year earlier. Where would Cadillac be now?

The two latest releases from GM's top divisons bear the influence of Bob Lutz and are absolutely nondescript. Neither the LaCrosse nor STS will garner the type of praise bestowed upon the Chrysler 300C, even. Cadillac's best effort in recent history, the CTS, is going on a half-decade old, yet remains much more striking and compelling than its larger sibling. It's a true shame.

The influence of Bob Lutz will populate GM's product pipeline for years to come. Time to sell your GM stock.

[BigAls87Z28]

Desmo, I guess based on one car with an old lady in it, that Caddy is going down hill.

What this means to me, is that even though Caddy went to RWD, old people dont give a ****************!! Which means that the excuse of people saying "old people want FWD" is BS.
Ive seen plenty of old people driving CTS's....does that mean that Caddy should have died last year?
The 300 is a different car then either the CTS and STS. Caddy is not going to step down just to make a car to battle the 300. Who cares about 1 single car in Chryslers line up? We are praising them for 1 single car.
Caddy has shown to have success with all of there new cars. CTS, Lade, SRX, and now the STS.

I see tons of girls drivign mustangs. Does that some how destroy the Mustangs image or equity? Should Ford worry? Isnt the Mustang a guys car?
Your ideas reflect your attitude twards GM, and like Mr.Wizard, they are usualy anti-GM. Your "facts" about the STS being dull and boring is flat out wrong. It still is a Caddy and deffinatly still shows off its A&S design. So what if it doesnt look EXACTLY like the CTS.
I assume that you have driven the car to give it the "yawn" effect and that you are not basing this little rant on just one single old lady driving a very fine automobile.

[paul8488]

Interesting analysis desmo9. I came to an opposite conclusion when I first saw the car. I think it's gorgeous. My first viewing was like the old Seville STS commercial, where kids were playing hockey in the streets, and yelled "CAR" every time a car came by... but were awe-struck when the Caddy rolled by and stared with gaping mouths. It has perfect lines and proportions to my eyes. I like the 300, but don't love it... it's a car I'll get sick of seeing shortly. I can't find a bad angle on the STS. I don't really grasp the exact influence Lutz can, has, and will have on product that is released... but I think the STS is a darn near perfect car.

[dav305z]

Two things: 1) The fact that your sample size of STS's is one or at most two on the road does not make for a very good demographic assessment. 2) This may surprise you, but most of the people who can afford a 50-65k car are in fact older.

I saw the STS in person the other day - VERY impressive. Pictures don't do it justice. It still has the angles of the CTS, but they are more subtle, more dignified, and more blended. The car looks exspensive - as does that entire showroom, an impressive feat considering that when I went to the same dealer two years ago, I walked out immediately after seeing an Eldorado w/ a vinyl roof and DeVille w/ whitwalls. Now there sat in their place and XLR, CTS-V, STS V-8, Escalade EXT, and SRX. Sorry to tell you Desmo, but Caddy is definately back in business.

Finally, I'm not so sure what people have against Bob Lutz. Are you judging him by the LaCrosse? I think its important to remember one thing - ITS A FAMILY CAR! Its not supposed to light a fire under anyone, its an update of the Buick Regal, not the showpeice for the company. Many have "blamed" him for the GTO. Well guess what, if he had not had the initiative to bring the car over here, GM would have had a 5 yr lapse with no rear-drive, V-8 offering for under 45k. Finally, have some patience, Rome wasn't built in a day, and neither will GM's comeback. Wait until you have seen the Solstice, new Saturns, and zeta cars. If GM is still quagmired at that point, than I will stand corrected.

[desmo9]

First of all, I wasn't framing the STS's target demographic based on seeing one old lady in one. I was simply using the example to illustrate how, in my opinion, the car's styling is flat as a fart.

And Al, you can blog on about FWD/RWD ... that's great. I said nothing about the architecture of the car, its powertrain, or driving wheels. On those counts, STS has great merit. If it wasn't clear to you, I was focused solely on the exterior styling of the car.

Most people will buy the car on the basis of how it looks, and thus, it won't do well. Don't take my word for it. Simply wait a year and compare sales of this one with that of the last STS.

The same folks who deride the 300C praise the STS. Bob Lutz included. Now that the 300C is proving to be a sales success, what's that tell you?

The STS isn't an ugly car, but it does nothing to raise the styling bar for Cadillac and the industry. NADA. How can it, when the 5-year-old CTS looks so much better?

[desmo9]

Originally Posted by dav305z

Finally, I'm not so sure what people have against Bob Lutz. Are you judging him by the LaCrosse? I think its important to remember one thing - ITS A FAMILY CAR! Its not supposed to light a fire under anyone, its an update of the Buick Regal, not the showpeice for the company.

That statement is a joke, bud.

[coolcaddy]

STS is an established Cadillac brand, i.e. the majority of STS owners are traditional Cadillac clientele.

Buyers who are most likely to shop specifically for an STS are current STS owners, so it stands to reason that most initial '05 STS purchases will fit the traditional Cadillac customer mold more than those who are existing customers of newer brands such as Escalade, CTS, and so-forth.

The market at large still doesn't know the new STS exists (they don't read GMI ), and it will take a lot of those traditional buyers putting a lot of those cars on the road before some sort of critical mass is reached and the average consumer stands up and takes notice.

BTW, I remember initial feedback from the mainstream automotive press about the Escalade and CTS. It was chock full of observations that only older people were attracted to these new Cadillacs, as well as predictions of doom and failure. More recently, the SRX was the subject of such discussion, even right here at GMI. The SRX now represents a greater percentage of Cadillac sales than the last generation STS did a few years ago--so much for premature predictions.

So, no offense desmo, but IMO, your analysis is shortsighted and the title of this topic is definitely premature.

[Canuck]

So one person doesn't like the STS styling.
This is good news for Caddy and GM.
I for one am happy GM is not appealling to Desmo9 with the styling (exterior) of the STS. Des is often posting the great styling of VW and Audi. Neither of which offer groundbreaking styling aside for the TT (which is a sports car and not a mainstream sedan).
Would the STS be better if it looked more like the Evoq show car which harder creases? (Yes I know the Evoq was the concept that led the to XLR)
I doubt it.
I have seen three STS so far and love how it looks.
The STS blends into the Cadillac line-up.
What was your goal with this topic Des?
Did you expect anyone to agree with you?
I know Rex doesn't care for A&S as do others but the direction Cadillac has taken in the last five years is working maybe GM should look at Lincoln?

[goblue]

Desmo is way off here.

The STS styling has been revered by most journalists as the best A&S themed car yet. Many people have issues with the CTS, myself included (side view mirror area, frt quarter panel interface with hood, etc) The STS is a sharp, polished machine thats so good even C&D would not give the Beamer the nod over it. Basically they said, unless you crusie at 120+ on a daiy basis, its the better bet. Thats exactly where Caddy wants to be.

Take the best the Germans have, and tone it down so you get a comfortable ride with great handling below 100mph on our rougher roads. They hit it perfectly. Hopefully, in a year or two they will dial a little more out of the V6 to compete better with the RL, and make AWD an option on the 6 for under 50K.

[PONTIACGXP]

Desmo you're the DUD.........When i seen the STS I loved the styling just because it doesn't look exactly like the CTS doesn't mean its not gonna be a hit and the comparison to an accord i don't know what car you were looking at because it looks nothing like an accord.If you wanna talk about a DUD in styling how about we talk about the RL it looks like a Honda Odyssey sedan it look so bloated how about someone give it a laxative!!!you're just bias not every car is gonna look like a 300c and not everyone wants a 300c just because the 300c is doing well now doesn't mean its gonna be doing well in 2 years i think Cadillacs entire new line of cars is a hit and in years to come Cadillac is gonna get better and better!!!

What car were you looking at because they look nothing alike!!!


They shouldve just named it odyssey instead of RL

[desmo9]

Originally Posted by coolcaddy

The market at large still doesn't know the new STS exists (they don't read GMI ), and it will take a lot of those traditional buyers putting a lot of those cars on the road before some sort of critical mass is reached and the average consumer stands up and takes notice.

Sorry, but what you wrote there is a lame excuse, or something.

Tell me why those comments did not apply to the CTS. The awareness of that car developed immediately, and without a big advertising push. And the push wasn't generated by "traditional buyers" at all -- which would have been, what ... a couple dozen Catera owners???

If it takes alot of marketing/advertising push or existing STS gray-hairs to create an awareness of the new STS, then the car's nothing special. Which was my initial point.

As the GTO has taught everyone, even a great platform and super powertrain won't sell bland cars.

[desmo9]

Originally Posted by PONTIACGXP

and the comparison to an accord i don't know what car you were looking at because it looks nothing like an accord.

I believe I said side profiles, so you post frontal views as if to prove a point ... which would have to be that you can't or chose not to read.

As for Canuck and others who also can't understand the theme of a post ... and btw, if one finds a VW Phaeton bland, then to call the STS exciting is sheer hypocrisy. My point is that it doesn't keep Cadillac on the leading edge. It's a nice-looking conservative car, as an Accord is a nice-looking conservative car, but does absolutely nothing to maintain Cadillac's styling leadership. That's irrefutable, not even an opinion, really. New imports look as good ... and we couldn't say that about the CTS when it was released, could we?

This isn't about whether GM-faithful like the car .. of course they do, as it's a good effort for GM. It's about whether it'll be a compelling alternative for a BMW or Mercedes owner. That's what Cadillac's future is hinged on. For the most part, STS won't draw much notice from import owners ... unless they suddenly want to buy American or something.

If Bob Lutz hadn't interfered with the STS, I have little doubt it would shake up its segment the way the CTS did to its.

[PONTIACGXP]

First off the CTS did not shake up its segment right off the bat it took a while for new people to know what the CTS was because it was so new to caddillac and second of all i still dont see youre point because the side profile looks nothig alike!!!

You would have to be a fool to mistake these two cars!!!







The styling of a car does not have to be leading edge to sell look at the Accord and Camry whats so leading edge about those two cars but there the two best selling cars and another point is the styling of the e-class,Audi A8,GS 430 or the 5 series leading edge not in my eyes all of them are nice cars but there not class leading edge look at the 5 series BMW tried to make it edgy and look what it got them alot of disapointed critics and customers
its an edgy car but i dont see the 5 series leading anything in style just because you tone the styling down a little doesnt mean its a boring car in no way when i look at the STS do i see a boring car!!!

[desmo9]

Ignoring the nice photo treatment of the STS (cuz this profile pic looks alot better than what you see on the street) ... the two profiles are more alike than most want to admit. Not identical, but certainly similarities in many aspects. But the point, again, isn't that they're identical. It's that the STS isn't much more striking than a Honda Accord from this view. Do you really think it is? Make the Honda charcoal black and do some nice photochopping in the background ... and I think you'd be surprised by what you find.

I was accustomed to seeing STS pics like the profile above, and thought it looked decent. But today, when I saw one on the road, it looked more realistic ... like the silver, 3/4 view a couple posts up ... which is much less invigorating to look at, I'm sure you'll agree.

[dav305z]

Just your perception and bias desmo. Your welcome to it, but your not going to convince anyone, certainly not me, that the awesome looking STS is similar in any way to an Accord, no matter how many times you post. Most people, including every automotive publication, seems to like how it looks.
Also, the CTS did not catch on right away, it was slow for the first few months if i remember, and then they started ramping up and havent looked back since.