Proposal for a Cadillac V12

[Michael_S]

Take the basic design of the 5.3 liter form of the smallblock V8, and engineer it with 4 extra cylinders. Assuming linear 'growth', you have 8 liters and about 480 horsepower.

Give it cylinder deactivation and variable valve timing to improve the tech image. Mate it to the 6 speed RWD automatic GM just developed (which is listed to have a 520 pound foot max torque rating, in some applications).

Then drop it into a $75,000 Cadillac sedan, because GM can almost certainly make an OHV V12 much more cheaply than the competition can make their OHC 12 cylinder engines.

Viola, you have a monstrously powerful sedan with a V12 and a 'Cadillac' badge deep into enemy V8 territory. And you still beat them on fuel economy.

It will be the cheapest V12 you can buy by $20,000.

[mgescuro]

But the problem is perception. It's STILL and OHV... and will not do so hot globally.
Sorry... OHC is the only way to go for Cadillac.

Besides, they already have the Northstar XV12 at 750HP.

[DuSpinnst]

Originally Posted by mgescuro

But the problem is perception. It's STILL and OHV... and will not do so hot globally.
Sorry... OHC is the only way to go for Cadillac.

Besides, they already have the Northstar XV12 at 750HP.

Why don't they have a car for that? How about a stretched XLR?

[CRBoyd91]

Originally Posted by DuSpinnst

Why don't they have a car for that? How about a stretched XLR?

They should make a Mercedes S-Class competitor and offer the V12 in the top of the line model like an S600. Now that, my dear son, is profit!

[FourOnTheFloor]

I think they should drop that monster into the STS-V. Forget foriegn perception, give them an American OHV engine or no engine at all!

I think an OHV V12 would be cheaper to make than the DOHC V8 Northstar engine.

[86fleet]

How about 2 LS7s put together for a V16. That 1000 hp, and beats the record for the largest passenger car engine (the 1970-76 Cadillac 500 V8) by 5.9 liters, or 360 cubic inches. Just the difference would make a pretty big engine. Talk about excess! After all that's what Cadillac's known for.
Be sure to put it in a 20 foot long, 5000 lb car with lots of chrome, and call it the Eldorado.

[Michael_S]

Originally Posted by mgescuro

But the problem is perception. It's STILL and OHV... and will not do so hot globally.
Sorry... OHC is the only way to go for Cadillac.

Besides, they already have the Northstar XV12 at 750HP.

I'm thinking in terms of cost. The cheapest 12-cylinder vehicle on sale today is the Phaeton, at $96,000 base price. And the only reason Volkswagen can offer it at that price is that they're using an engine already developed for the Audi W12.

If GM does an OHV V12, both GM's internal costs and the MSRP of the resulting product can undercut the competition by a mile. Almost no one would buy a $120,000 Cadillac OHV V12 when they could get a BMW 760 or a Mercedes S600. But I bet a lot of people would get a $75,000 Cadillac OHV V12 instead of a BMW 750 or Mercedes S500.

[Ghrankenstein]

I have no problem with an OHV V-12, but I'm surprised that noone has mentioned that the 5300 should really not be the starting point for anything other than a V-16, as it's 90-degrees, and would likely require balance shafts like the 3800 does. Everybody, press or no press, loved the 13.6L OHV V-16.

The HV 60-degree engines, if only based on their "natural" angle, would probably be a better starting place.

Ghrank

[Tone]

To build on that -- if based on the 3.9 used in the Impala, you could create a theoretical 7.8 litre OHV V12 with around 480 hp.

This is basically how Aston Martin V12's were developed, except they were based on the OHC Ford V6.

[mgescuro]

Originally Posted by CRBoyd91

They should make a Mercedes S-Class competitor and offer the V12 in the top of the line model like an S600. Now that, my dear son, is profit!

Yup. The oft-rumored ULS. But that's supposedly has an OHV V10.

[mgescuro]

Originally Posted by Michael_S

I'm thinking in terms of cost. The cheapest 12-cylinder vehicle on sale today is the Phaeton, at $96,000 base price. And the only reason Volkswagen can offer it at that price is that they're using an engine already developed for the Audi W12.

If GM does an OHV V12, both GM's internal costs and the MSRP of the resulting product can undercut the competition by a mile. Almost no one would buy a $120,000 Cadillac OHV V12 when they could get a BMW 760 or a Mercedes S600. But I bet a lot of people would get a $75,000 Cadillac OHV V12 instead of a BMW 750 or Mercedes S500.

Doesn't matter really. because if GM were to put a V12 in any car -- Corvette, STS, XLR, ULS, Cien -- whatever..... the price would alreayd be in the $90Ks anways.

I think people would buy a $120K Cadillac with a OHC V12 at 700HP. Don't you? Especially if it's better than S600 and 750iL.

I think V12 should remain an exclusive engine for ultra-premium cars.

[ViperDVMan]

I would really love to see GM take the XV-12 and drop it in a Cadillac....and really put a hurtin' on the German competition. Audi has a W12, BMW has a V12, Mercedes has a V12.....Cadillac should have one too if they want to complete their revolution.....right along with building the S-class fighter and a Kappa-based SLK-fighter. The ULS project had better have an optional V12...if not right away, then in a year or two. As for dropping it in the XLR....I'm not sure how Cadillac will manage it with the Corvette chassis. I don't even know how Mercedes is managing to shoehorn their V12 in the SL600 and SL65 AMG. Is it even possible? Either way, I wish it was, then you would have one hell of an XLR-V.

[pagemaster]

I think it would be a good idea but they would have to make a whole new car.

[haleykeek]

cadillac could simply stretch the existing corvette's chasis a few inches up front to accomodate this engine for the XLR. it should be named,"XLR-12" this engine should be a NorthStar Based engine.and since GM is once again,in love with forced induction(ie,superchargers)it would be a nice idea to build this 12-cylinder engine with a supercharger for good measure with the turob-charged and supercharged Mercedes,and AMG's, and M-series BMW's,and not to mention the Aston Martins marques.

[mgescuro]

Originally Posted by haleykeek

cadillac could simply stretch the existing corvette's chasis a few inches up front to accomodate this engine for the XLR. it should be named,"XLR-12" this engine should be a NorthStar Based engine.and since GM is once again,in love with forced induction(ie,superchargers)it would be a nice idea to build this 12-cylinder engine with a supercharger for good measure with the turob-charged and supercharged Mercedes,and AMG's, and M-series BMW's,and not to mention the Aston Martins marques.

Ironically enough, there was talk of stretching the chassis to accommodate it in the next-gen XLR.