CTS SportWagon

[70eldo]

Originally Posted by mbukukanyau

Is Cadillac really pulling out of Europe?

Not really. But the focuss will be adjusted and for now there will be less (official) dealers. That is a real shame, because the CTS is a matching car for europe. It is just missing the PR. Noone knows Cadillac in Europe and that won't change unless you make some good PR to (re-)introduce Cadillac to Europe.

At least everyone I encounter and see my CTS are very interested and have all good to say. First thing they ask is always if it uses a lot of fuel, bacause they think of the old land yachts when they think Cadillac.

[70eldo]

Originally Posted by 2002 Caddy

Sure add in the Canadian numbers too... I will even give you the "sales correction" factor of the "base price of the wagon"/"base price of the SRX"

How about you add "2002 Caddy is right, we should have fired Rick, with cause, in 2004, 2005 and twice in 2007"

Thats a little too long... I'll work on it.

Since SRX and CTS wagon are both sold in Europe as well, those numbers should count too. The complete sales numbers count for Cadillac.

I think the wagon will not outsell the SRX (though, it will in Europe), but the total sales numbers of the CTS wagon will at least not disappoint to make the wagon a 'right dissision' for Cadillac.

[Koasterking]

I think the success of the sport wagon depends on where you live in the country. Where I live, I see a great deal of wagons, especially from Volvo and MB. Here and there I'll see a Mazda6 wagon, but I think people in my area prefer luxury.

[yello430]

"The wagon makes sense to GM bean counters but not to anyone who looks at what might actually sell...

To the accountant, this car cost next to nothing to develop (low fixed cost) and will help spread the cost of sigma over another car that might sell.

To the marketing guy this car is wacko. The market for Wagons in North America is minuscule. High end wagons even smaller. "

2002 Caddy : thought i'd add a few comments to your observations .

You are absolutely correct in saying that the bean counters generally like wagons..............however , in the case of the CTS wagon , that project was dreamed up and proposed by the Cadillac Design Studio . The strategy two years ago when the proposal was made was centered around several factors : 1. The thinking went that people would gradually transition out of SUV's because of increasing fuel prices 2. Many people , particularly women , would eventually grow tired of wielding around in large SUV's. 3. A wagon made sense for the European market .

There was resistance from Finance, and other areas of GM because of what you stated , that wagons never sell in the US . But the logic went , that for a minimal investment , there would be another vehicle in the CTS family . The Coupe was supposed to precede the wagon , but .........the company simply ran out of money , and the Sportwagon was the eaiser of the two to make happen .That doesn't make it right ,but we don't live in a perfect world .

Time will tell whether or not it was the right thing to do . The goal was never to sell a bazillion wagons ;it was just to add incremental sales with a minimal investment . Europe will be a question mark for now .

[HoeyHimself]

We just got one at our office late last week, I haven't driven it, but it looks really good. I have not seen the rear hatch of a wagon look so sharp and attractive. If Americans wont buy this, I give up on trying to figure out what they need to get over their distaste for wagons.

[2002 Caddy]

Originally Posted by calgaryhhr

Sounds good Caddy, I'll come up with something clever to put if I lose (unless you have anything in mind.)

Shall we consider sales in both Canada and the US or only the US alone. I know Canada is a much smaller market but I think it will really help my CTS wagon sales tally. I think we can start with looking at the simple unit volume. If I come up with a formula that will help me win I will share it with you

Hopefully GM will supply sales volume for the CTS wagon and not just lump it in with CTS sedan sales.

Well the first full month's numbers are in for the new SRX and it sold 1401... the CTS sold only 2584... That Minivan thing with is already selling at over 54% of ALL CTS sales.

We haven't even started and it is already looking like a massacre.

[calgaryhhr]

Originally Posted by 2002 Caddy

Well the first full month's numbers are in for the new SRX and it sold 1401... the CTS sold only 2584... That Minivan thing with is already selling at over 54% of ALL CTS sales.

We haven't even started and it is already looking like a massacre.

I asked the question in the GM August sales numbers: how many of the SRX sales are 2010 models and how many are clearanced 2009?

I'm under the impression that many of the SRX sales in August were for 2009 models. LaNeve's comment "Now we have the Buick Lacrosse, Cadillac SRX and GMC Terrain hitting the market" isn't necessarily very clear as to whether those models are already generating sales in August or if he feels they generate sales in the coming months.

[b4z]

okay, so let's look at pricing, it's bigger than the A4 so I would say a better value.
If i price out a RWD 3.6L performance which does not have ultraview, and the only option i add is the Y43 19" Summer Tire package with FE3 suspension and Limited slip differential, etc. MSRP is $48K. The car would also not have NAV but would otherwise be well equipped.
i was at a Mercedes dealership over the weekend and there was ML350 base with running boards for $46K. Much bigger interior.
The A6 Avant, which would be optioned out to $57K. Obviously it is AWD but has a supercharged V6 and is a good 1 second faster to 60mph.
Having said that, if you look at the A6 Avant why not buy the Q5 which is basically less money?

I think the people who are going to buy the wagon are looking for something more sporty and physically smaller. I would guess that the hwy mileage on Sport Wagon will be a solid 6mpg better at 80 mph than my V6 '07 SRX.
That means a LOT to me which is why I am considering the Sport Wagon.
I HAVE to have to lease incentives thrown at it for me to get one. It's a caddy and depreciation is huge on all Caddys.

[chakis24]

Originally Posted by 2002 Caddy

Well the first full month's numbers are in for the new SRX and it sold 1401... the CTS sold only 2584... That Minivan thing with is already selling at over 54% of ALL CTS sales.

We haven't even started and it is already looking like a massacre.

another part of the argument, how much did the srx, something on its own platform (from what i understand, i could be wrong), cost to design and build, and how much did the wagon, something based on an existing car (which means there were very few wagon specific things that needed to be done), cost to design and build?

i wonder what the profit/loss per sale is, for thats where the winner/loser answer would come from.

[2002 Caddy]

Originally Posted by chakis24

another part of the argument, how much did the srx, something on its own platform (from what i understand, i could be wrong), cost to design and build, and how much did the wagon, something based on an existing car (which means there were very few wagon specific things that needed to be done), cost to design and build?

i wonder what the profit/loss per sale is, for thats where the winner/loser answer would come from.

The SRX shares most of its platform and under pinnings with... (and you will want to sit down for this one):
Chevrolet Equinox
Daewoo Winstorm
Pontiac Torrent
Saturn Vue
Suzuki XL7 and the
GMC Terrain

If you are looking for profit loss... that too is a suckers bet.. The CTS which shares the platform with the wagon hasn't made any money yet either...

Since the SRX platform will be depreciated over SEVERAL models it is WAY more likely to make money then any version of the CTS.

[b4z]

....and the Sigma is very very expensive to build. That is why they are trying so hard to move away from it. The STS, CTS and 1st gen SRX are all built at lansing. What is GM going to do with Lansing if it comes down to 1 or 2 platforms? I think the other downside is the narrowness of Sigma. My SRX with 3 adults in the back seat is uncomfortable.

Regardless I'm still very interested in the Sport Wagon from a hwy gas mileage and driving dynamics point of view.
Our vacation home is 242 miles away.If I drive 80-84mph it is 18.8 mpg in the V6 SRX which is 12.87 gallons. If the Sport wagon gets 25mpg it will only use 9.68 gallons. A savings of $15 for every round trip. If gas goes up to $4 again I would save $24 for every round trip.
I only average around 15mpg around town so if the Sport wagon gets 19 then it starts to make financial sense since i am going to buy a new CUV or wagon anyway when the SRX's lease is up.

[2002 Caddy]

Originally Posted by calgaryhhr

I asked the question in the GM August sales numbers: how many of the SRX sales are 2010 models and how many are clearanced 2009?

I'm under the impression that many of the SRX sales in August were for 2009 models. LaNeve's comment "Now we have the Buick Lacrosse, Cadillac SRX and GMC Terrain hitting the market" isn't necessarily very clear as to whether those models are already generating sales in August or if he feels they generate sales in the coming months.

According to GM and the WSJ.. these are 2010 cars and they are selling like hot cakes.. basically the ONLY Caddy that is selling right now...

http://www.marketwatch.com/story/gm-...nal-2009-09-16

The Wagon will have a HUGE up hill battle to beat this car/truck.

[2002 Caddy]

Update... on my bet/prediction...
Note that it is very early in the first quarter... but

For September... and yes, these are all 2010 SRX sales...

Cadillac’s CTS was down 20 percent (3,485... which includes all of the wagons),
DTS dropped 32.5 percent while STS fell 49.3 percent.
The new SRX single handedly made Cadillac the best-performing brand, up 238 percent from last September’s 848-unit performance, with 2,866 units sold (nearly a quarter of Caddy’s total car and truck volume)

Team SRX scores the first touchdown... and wipes the sport wagon's nose in it with a 2 point conversion.

Team SRX is penalized 15 yards on the return for excessive endzone celebration.

Next update in 31 days.

[FenwickHockey65]

Did anyone honestly expect to see the Sportwagon sell a ton of units in the US?

If anything, it'll appeal to all the last-gen SRX owners who didn't like the new SRX.

[calgaryhhr]

Fenwick - I am one person who thinks the CTS Sportwagon should sell extremely well (better than the SRX.)

2002 Caddy - I will admit that the September SRX sales numbers are quite impressive. I still don't think CTS Sportwagons have hit the dealers. I know in Canada (or at least in Calgary, Alberta) there are no CTS Sportwagon. My local dealership is supposed to call me when the first one arrives (should be late next week.) My local sales person told me that they sold 3 SRX's when I was talking with him (around Sept 17/18.)

I hope that at some point GM will actually provide a breakdown of CTS sales (sedan vs wagon.)

You also have to remember that this is just "pre-season" action. In our initial aggreance post/thread I mentioned that I wanted to look at the sales comparison for the 2010 sales year (Jan through Dec.) These first few months are just a warm up. My star hasn't even been put into the game yet to show what he can do.