CTS SportWagon

[calgaryhhr]

Originally Posted by 2002 Caddy

That would all make sense, if in fact the CTS was profitable... it isn't.
And as I posted the chances of a Wagon that almost no-one will buy helping it become profitable is next to zero.

Caddy, as much as I love wagons and would really like this CTS wagon I hope that your prediction about the CTS wagon not selling is true. If it was the case I would expect big discounts in the future to move inventory which means a good deal for me might exist.

My prediction: sales for the calender year of 2010 will be very strong and will rival the SRX sales. Only time will tell but I think the CTS wagon will be more popular. It is coming off a successful platform and the CTS is already preceived as a very good vehicle. The SRX will have a lot of work to do to gain customer, albeit the SUV/CUV platform is more popular than a wagon platform (for whatever reason.)

[2002 Caddy]

Originally Posted by calgaryhhr

Caddy, as much as I love wagons and would really like this CTS wagon I hope that your prediction about the CTS wagon not selling is true. If it was the case I would expect big discounts in the future to move inventory which means a good deal for me might exist.

My prediction: sales for the calender year of 2010 will be very strong and will rival the SRX sales. Only time will tell but I think the CTS wagon will be more popular. It is coming off a successful platform and the CTS is already preceived as a very good vehicle. The SRX will have a lot of work to do to gain customer, albeit the SUV/CUV platform is more popular than a wagon platform (for whatever reason.)

I hope you are right, your prediction about discounts on the wagon will also likely place presure to discount everything else in the CTS line... Thats why the coupe should have been next... the coupe would have been the perfect bait and switch car... A georgous coupe gets them into the dealership... back seat a little too tight? What the heck, the sedan is almost as pretty, buy one of those... That sorta thing happens every day...

[PAULSTS1]

Originally Posted by mbukukanyau

Is Cadillac really pulling out of Europe?

I referenced something I read. Use the "Search Function" and type in Cadillac out of Europe and you will find some listings. When I did it minutes ago I came up with reference to an Auto News article dated 03/26/2009.

The information shouldn't be surprising as GM didn't design anything for the Euro market. The CTS is too big on the outside, doesn't have the right engine fuel choices (no diesel, gas hybrid) and the worse: Bad distribution channels!

Marketing is your speciality, so you know what would be required an internet investigation will reveal that GM is doing in Europe what it does here, just produce and dump on the market (no market research or weighted necessity).

[jlmartin99]

Originally Posted by 2002 Caddy

That would all make sense, if in fact the CTS was profitable... it isn't.
And as I posted the chances of a Wagon that almost no-one will buy helping it become profitable is next to zero.

2002 Caddy,

I would believe Cadillac is headed in the correct direction by expanding their CTS model portfolio and focusing on profitable segments such as with their new SRX.

I do not doubt your statement here, however have you seen any published numbers regarding Cadillac's profit margins by model or BMW or Mercedes-Benz or Lexus for comparison? I do not recall seeing profit numbers, just sales numbers for the luxury brands. I recall seeing articles talking about particular models being profitable for luxury brands such as the BMW 3 Series and Cadillac's Escalades and DTS, but I do not recall seeing any detail numbers.

But again, all of these articles were before the severe drop in auto sales and the massive losses posted by all of the auto and luxury brands and prior to GM's bankruptcy. I would expect all of the previous losses GM Corp. are allocated to the old GM versus the new GM Company and same would apply to the Cadillac brand financial statements. In that the New GM Company is less than 90 day old, I would not expect any financial statements to be published until reviewed with new GM board first and then a public financial statement later.

JLM

[2002 Caddy]

Originally Posted by jlmartin99

But again, all of these articles were before the severe drop in auto sales and the massive losses posted by all of the auto and luxury brands and prior to GM's bankruptcy. I would expect all of the previous losses GM Corp. are allocated to the old GM versus the new GM Company and same would apply to the Cadillac brand financial statements. In that the New GM Company is less than 90 day old, I would not expect any financial statements to be published until reviewed with new GM board first and then a public financial statement later.

Wheither or not a specific car or platform is profitable has little to do with old vs new GM or legacy costs or what have you... it is mostly to do with development and fixed platform costs and per unit "variable costs" profit level.

The STS and SRX never even came close to selling at a unit profit level... these cars always sold at huge discounts, at bes,t a break even level... in short they did NOTHING to help pay for the development costs of the Sigma/Sigma II platform. The CTS bore the cost of Sigma pretty much all on its own...

The wagon makes sense to GM bean counters but not to anyone who looks at what might actually sell...

To the accountant, this car cost next to nothing to develop (low fixed cost) and will help spread the cost of sigma over another car that might sell.

To the marketing guy this car is wacko. The market for Wagons in North America is minuscule. High end wagons even smaller.

This will likely compete with the new (and very pretty) SRX (which will satisfy most of the same requirements as the wagon), except the SRX will be offered at a lower cost...
My prediction, the new gorgeous SRX will do to the CTS wagon what the CTS sedan did to the STS.

[jlmartin99]

Originally Posted by 2002 Caddy

Wheither or not a specific car or platform is profitable has little to do with old vs new GM or legacy costs or what have you... it is mostly to do with development and fixed platform costs and per unit "variable costs" profit level.

The STS and SRX never even came close to selling at a unit profit level... these cars always sold at huge discounts, at bes,t a break even level... in short they did NOTHING to help pay for the development costs of the Sigma/Sigma II platform. The CTS bore the cost of Sigma pretty much all on its own...

The wagon makes sense to GM bean counters but not to anyone who looks at what might actually sell...

To the accountant, this car cost next to nothing to develop (low fixed cost) and will help spread the cost of sigma over another car that might sell.

To the marketing guy this car is wacko. The market for Wagons in North America is minuscule. High end wagons even smaller.

This will likely compete with the new (and very pretty) SRX (which will satisfy most of the same requirements as the wagon), except the SRX will be offered at a lower cost...
My prediction, the new gorgeous SRX will do to the CTS wagon what the CTS sedan did to the STS.

2002 Caddy,

OK. But no published numbers to review?

JLM

[calgaryhhr]

Originally Posted by 2002 Caddy

This will likely compete with the new (and very pretty) SRX (which will satisfy most of the same requirements as the wagon), except the SRX will be offered at a lower cost...
My prediction, the new gorgeous SRX will do to the CTS wagon what the CTS sedan did to the STS.

Caddy, I would love to set up some sort of friendly little challenge between you and I when it comes to tracking the SRX vs CTS wagon sales. I believe that CTS wagon sales will be stronger than SRX sales and you believe the opposite. I propose we see who has the stronger sales for calender year 2010 (by that point both new vehicles should be widely available across North America.

I would love to include some sort reward/punishment into the challenge. I don't know what that could be though, maybe some sort of statement in our signatures.

Would you be up for that? It makes it a little more interesting and more personal when GM releases their sales number every month.

Are you up for that

[jlmartin99]

Originally Posted by calgaryhhr

Caddy, I would love to set up some sort of friendly little challenge between you and I when it comes to tracking the SRX vs CTS wagon sales. I believe that CTS wagon sales will be stronger than SRX sales and you believe the opposite. I propose we see who has the stronger sales for calender year 2010 (by that point both new vehicles should be widely available across North America.

I would love to include some sort reward/punishment into the challenge. I don't know what that could be though, maybe some sort of statement in our signatures.

Would you be up for that? It makes it a little more interesting and more personal when GM releases their sales number every month.

Are you up for that

calgaryhhr,

I would agree with 2002 Caddy here, the SRX will far out sell the CTS Sport Wagon. It has little to do with your preference of one model or the other , but more the size of the luxury segment and the luxury station wagon segment is much smaller in the U. S. market than outside the states I suspect.

JLM

[2002 Caddy]

Originally Posted by calgaryhhr

Caddy, I would love to set up some sort of friendly little challenge between you and I when it comes to tracking the SRX vs CTS wagon sales. I believe that CTS wagon sales will be stronger than SRX sales and you believe the opposite. I propose we see who has the stronger sales for calender year 2010 (by that point both new vehicles should be widely available across North America.

I would love to include some sort reward/punishment into the challenge. I don't know what that could be though, maybe some sort of statement in our signatures.

Would you be up for that? It makes it a little more interesting and more personal when GM releases their sales number every month.

Are you up for that

Sure... I'll take that bet... Its not a fair fight though... the new SRX will be thousands cheaper then the Sport wagon... and price has a lot to do with sales... We'll need some sort of price correction factor to make this fair.

If you're right...
I'll add "CalgaryHHR is better at product placement then me and LaNeve" to my sig...

[calgaryhhr]

Originally Posted by 2002 Caddy

Sure... I'll take that bet... Its not a fair fight though... the new SRX will be thousands cheaper then the Sport wagon... and price has a lot to do with sales... We'll need some sort of price correction factor to make this fair.

If you're right...
I'll add "CalgaryHHR is better at product placement then me and LaNeve" to my sig...

Sounds good Caddy, I'll come up with something clever to put if I lose (unless you have anything in mind.)

Shall we consider sales in both Canada and the US or only the US alone. I know Canada is a much smaller market but I think it will really help my CTS wagon sales tally. I think we can start with looking at the simple unit volume. If I come up with a formula that will help me win I will share it with you

Hopefully GM will supply sales volume for the CTS wagon and not just lump it in with CTS sedan sales.

[2002 Caddy]

Originally Posted by calgaryhhr

Sounds good Caddy, I'll come up with something clever to put if I lose (unless you have anything in mind.)

Shall we consider sales in both Canada and the US or only the US alone. I know Canada is a much smaller market but I think it will really help my CTS wagon sales tally. I think we can start with looking at the simple unit volume. If I come up with a formula that will help me win I will share it with you

Hopefully GM will supply sales volume for the CTS wagon and not just lump it in with CTS sedan sales.

Sure add in the Canadian numbers too... I will even give you the "sales correction" factor of the "base price of the wagon"/"base price of the SRX"

How about you add "2002 Caddy is right, we should have fired Rick, with cause, in 2004, 2005 and twice in 2007"

Thats a little too long... I'll work on it.

[emh]

Originally Posted by FenwickHockey65

I thought the European CTSs had diesels, the 2.9L or whatever?

According to the link below, only the BLS line is available with diesels. I believe the last I heard of the 2.9 diesel was that it's on indefinite hold...

Cadillac lineup from carpages.co.uk

[ral1960]

Much as I like the way this CTS wagon looks, it's annoying to me that we're offered seriously compromised wagons like the late Magnum, Malibu Maxx, and this one, and then told that wagons don't sell in this country. Wonder why?

The CTS wagon has the same cramped rear head room as the sedan, and most of its additional luggage space is above the seatback.

[arkokes]

i seen a white one today pass by me on the road here in michigan

[b4z]

my guess is it will be less than $2k more than the sedan.
Caddy made a big mistake with the SRX in '04 when they priced it at $38,600 and the sedan was $31-32K. In mid '06 the price was dropped from $39,900 to $36,900.