CTS SportWagon

[calgaryhhr]

I'm very excited about the new CTS SportWagon. I honestly did not believe it would be built because I figured GM just didn't believe there was a market for such a vehicle. They took the chance and built the vehicle which is awesome to see.

I took the day off to get some rest and relax outside the office a bit. I decided to head down to my local dealership because I had to pick up some paper work. I wanted to see if I could get an information about the new SportWagon and if I could get some finance and lease info. My dealer said he expected his first wagon in early September. He expected it to show up mid August but said production was pushed back. He has three on order, all fully loaded and two with AWD. GM Canada has not provided a price for the wagon yet but he expects it to be about $5000 more than a loaded sedan (about $60,000 CAD at least.)

He kept asking if I wanted to lay claim to one but I'm not ready to make that kind of move without seeing one and trying one out. I can't wait until September so that I can go check one out and begin to consider whether I really want to pick up a new vehicle.

I have not been this excited about a new GM product in a long time.

[2002 Caddy]

Sometimes a car comes along to fill a market that no-one knew existed... like the Ford Mustang, the Chysler Minivan, the Escalade...

Sometimes a car comes along to refill a market that once existed... Mazda Miata. New Camaro...

I don't think the CTS Wagon will fall into either camp.
Sadly history is littered with attempts to "bring back" station wagons...

Don't kid yourself Cadillac is bringing us this car, because the cost to add a big boxy trunk to the CTS sedan is less then the cost to fix the STS and there is a hope that there are so few competitors in this market that it just might hit... Of course a rational person would note that there is a reason that there are so few competitors in this space...

Wagons are the car that everyone goes "wow a wagon... cool" and then they buy something else.

My prediction, this car will be one of the nicest wagons on the planet... and they will sell in North America a few more then the 535xi wagon... which sells in the low hundeds per year.

[FenwickHockey65]

I think even GM knows they won't sell too many in the US market.

The European market's a different story.

[emh]

Originally Posted by FenwickHockey65

I think even GM knows they won't sell too many in the US market.

The European market's a different story.

I doubt there will be significant European sales (well, maybe significant by Cadillac-in-Western-Europe standards, but not by any other measure). Too big for most European buyers, no diesel, and certainly doesn't fix the problem of not enough dealers and not enough service centers.

[FenwickHockey65]

Originally Posted by emh

I doubt there will be significant European sales (well, maybe significant by Cadillac-in-Western-Europe standards, but not by any other measure). Too big for most European buyers, no diesel, and certainly doesn't fix the problem of not enough dealers and not enough service centers.

I thought the European CTSs had diesels, the 2.9L or whatever?

[Blair1118]

Its rather stunning in person, down here in coastal GA we RARELY get to see anything pre-production, but in the past year I saw a Camaro with manufacturer plates at an expensive restaurant, and 2 black CTS Sportwagons on I-95, practically got whiplash turning to see them once I realized they weren't the sedan.

[calgaryhhr]

I will agree with you guys that, initially, the CTS wagon will not be a big seller. I think that sales will likely grow year over year as people begin to see them and hopefully open their minds to them.

In the end, I don't really care if it becomes a successful model because it is actually making it to market and that means that I might be able to pick one up. That is what really matters to me. I love wagons and will seriously consider this along side a Volvo V70 and Jetta wagon.

[chakis24]

Originally Posted by 2002 Caddy

Sometimes a car comes along to fill a market that no-one knew existed... like the Ford Mustang, the Chysler Minivan, the Escalade...

Sometimes a car comes along to refill a market that once existed... Mazda Miata. New Camaro...

I don't think the CTS Wagon will fall into either camp.
Sadly history is littered with attempts to "bring back" station wagons...

Don't kid yourself Cadillac is bringing us this car, because the cost to add a big boxy trunk to the CTS sedan is less then the cost to fix the STS and there is a hope that there are so few competitors in this market that it just might hit... Of course a rational person would note that there is a reason that there are so few competitors in this space...

Wagons are the car that everyone goes "wow a wagon... cool" and then they buy something else.

My prediction, this car will be one of the nicest wagons on the planet... and they will sell in North America a few more then the 535xi wagon... which sells in the low hundeds per year.

does it matter so long as it turns a profit?

[2002 Caddy]

Originally Posted by chakis24

does it matter so long as it turns a profit?

Good point.. Sadly the CTS, the best selling Caddy by far (the only selling Cadillac actually..) has yet to make any profit. It has been reported by insiders that we lose money on each one...

This makes sense since the CTS's platform was to be paid for with help from the outgoing SRX and the soon to die STS; and as we know just about no-one bought those.

So now we are trying a different way to amortize this platform and finally sell enough cars to cover the development and other fixed costs. Trying to do this with a wagon is IMO really risky... but desperate times call for desperate measures...

Is there room for a wagon in this line up? Sure...
Should it be next? heck no...

The coupe should be next, followed by a convertible and THEN a wagon.

[jlmartin99]

I saw Cadillac's Sport Wagon and New SRX at the NYIAS and both are styled beautifully by Cadillac designers, but between these two I would prefer the SRX.

JLM

[PAULSTS1]

I saw the CTS wagon at the Los Angeles Autoshow and spoke to a Cadillac Representative about the possibility of diesel engines in European offerings and he said at the time that was the plan. Recently I read Cadillac was pulling out of Europe so I wondered why put the money into the CTS Wagon, when the CTC Coupe would have been a hit here? BTW, I found the wagon to be stunning it's just in the USA wagons haven't been popular in a long time.

[johnstarnes]

The CTS loses money? Bummer! Nonetheless I am really looking forward to seeing both the wagon and the coupe in real life as they look stunning in pics!

[mbukukanyau]

Originally Posted by PAULSTS1

I saw the CTS wagon at the Los Angeles Autoshow and spoke to a Cadillac Representative about the possibility of diesel engines in European offerings and he said at the time that was the plan. Recently I read Cadillac was pulling out of Europe so I wondered why put the money into the CTS Wagon, when the CTC Coupe would have been a hit here? BTW, I found the wagon to be stunning it's just in the USA wagons haven't been popular in a long time.

Is Cadillac really pulling out of Europe?

[jlmartin99]

Originally Posted by 2002 Caddy

Good point.. Sadly the CTS, the best selling Caddy by far (the only selling Cadillac actually..) has yet to make any profit. It has been reported by insiders that we lose money on each one...

This makes sense since the CTS's platform was to be paid for with help from the outgoing SRX and the soon to die STS; and as we know just about no-one bought those.

So now we are trying a different way to amortize this platform and finally sell enough cars to cover the development and other fixed costs. Trying to do this with a wagon is IMO really risky... but desperate times call for desperate measures...

Is there room for a wagon in this line up? Sure...
Should it be next? heck no...

The coupe should be next, followed by a convertible and THEN a wagon.

2002 Caddy,

Yes my impression is luxury brand models by in large are not profitable for the luxury brands. BMW's 3 Series provides the most profits for this luxury brand I would believe and is why BMW did not offer a Z8 luxury brand model in the luxury performance roadster category or full size luxury performance SUV segment, when I was comparison shopping Audi, Cadillac, Lexus, Lincoln, Infiniti, Jaguar, Mercedes-Benz, Range Rover and Aston Martin for purchase consideration.

I would think that is why luxury brands are targeting the most profitable segments for their luxury car market offerings with new models, such as BMW's 1 Series and X3 Series and Cadillac's expanding its CTS luxury models with the CTS-V, CTS Sport Wagon, CTS Coupe, CTS Coupe V and creating the new luxury CUV in the SRX targeted at the heart of this luxury market's sales leader, the Lexus RX.

Every luxury brand is going downstream where the profits are believed to be. Even when I was shopping for a luxury performance roadster, I was able to include Aston Martin's Vantage and for Aston Martin this model for them is going downstream. Several years ago this would have not been the case for the Aston Martin brand to offer a model below $150,000. Now most all the major luxury brands are targeting luxury models below $30,000 with the exception of Jaguar from my review.

It will the very interesting to see how all this plays out for all of the luxury brands over time. Recent history shows a luxury brand cannot remain viable without expanding model offerings across various luxury segments. Which gives me reason to be thoughtful of the viability as to certain wonderful brands such as Aston Martin, Ferrari, Jaguar, Hummer, Lamborghini, Maserati and Range Rover. All of these brands have very limited model portfolios and over time this spells financial death in my view.



JLM

[2002 Caddy]

Originally Posted by jlmartin99

2002 Caddy,

Yes my impression is luxury brand models by in large are not profitable for the luxury brands. BMW's 3 Series provides the most profits for this luxury brand I would believe and is why BMW did not offer a Z8 luxury brand model in the luxury performance roadster category or full size luxury performance SUV segment, when I was comparison shopping Audi, Cadillac, Lexus, Lincoln, Infiniti, Jaguar, Mercedes-Benz, Range Rover and Aston Martin for purchase consideration.

I would think that is why luxury brands are targeting the most profitable segments for their luxury car market offerings with new models, such as BMW's 1 Series and X3 Series and Cadillac's expanding its CTS luxury models with the CTS-V, CTS Sport Wagon, CTS Coupe, CTS Coupe V and creating the new luxury CUV in the SRX targeted at the heart of this luxury market's sales leader, the Lexus RX.

Every luxury brand is going downstream where the profits are believed to be. Even when I was shopping for a luxury performance roadster, I was able to include Aston Martin's Vantage and for Aston Martin this model for them is going downstream. Several years ago this would have not been the case for the Aston Martin brand to offer a model below $150,000. Now most all the major luxury brands are targeting luxury models below $30,000 with the exception of Jaguar from my review.

It will the very interesting to see how all this plays out for all of the luxury brands over time. Recent history shows a luxury brand cannot remain viable without expanding model offerings across various luxury segments. Which gives me reason to be thoughtful of the viability as to certain wonderful brands such as Aston Martin, Ferrari, Jaguar, Hummer, Lamborghini, Maserati and Range Rover. All of these brands have very limited model portfolios and over time this spells financial death in my view.

That would all make sense, if in fact the CTS was profitable... it isn't.
And as I posted the chances of a Wagon that almost no-one will buy helping it become profitable is next to zero.