Cadillac plans a compact sport sedan to debut in '11

[Ambalanche]

Originally Posted by johnstarnes

I think it is relevant because the Cimarron's successor, the Catera, was the immediate predecessor to the CTS.....it even provided the name and the basis for the new lame naming system......Catera Touring Sedan. The G3 and G5 are potent reminders that GM will even today fall back on cheesy rebadging instead of being dedicated to creating and sustaining a progressive, leading edge portfolio of truly desirable cars.

I prefer to think of the CTS as standing for Cadillac Touring Sedan...

[Hitman1970]

Originally Posted by davidlane

Only for those who perpetually:

1. see the glass as half, or less, full

2. will only be satisfied (?) when Cadillac builds cars as unattractive as BMW and reduces their quality to match BMW's in the most recent J.D. Powers IQS.

3. consider most products and services produced in the US to be inferior to foreign (particularly German) products. Just my opinion from here in flyover country.

Tampa, Florida is not fly over country.

[wescoent]

Originally Posted by mgescuro

WHy do I get the feeling that Cadillac will be targetting the Acura TSX as a competitor instead of the 335i??

Nah... ever since this story broke, I've been certain Cadillac will target the Lexus IS in principle, albeit bringing more power to the table.

[mgescuro]

Originally Posted by wescoent

Nah... ever since this story broke, I've been certain Cadillac will target the Lexus IS in principle, albeit bringing more power to the table.

The IS isn't that good of a car.
If you are striving to be the #1 luxury car company, why would GM aim for what is arguably #5 in the market segment?

3, C, A4, G, then IS...

[Slideways]

Originally Posted by johnstarnes

I think it is relevant because the Cimarron's successor, the Catera, was the immediate predecessor to the CTS.....it even provided the name and the basis for the new lame naming system......Catera Touring Sedan. The G3 and G5 are potent reminders that GM will even today fall back on cheesy rebadging instead of being dedicated to creating and sustaining a progressive, leading edge portfolio of truly desirable cars.

If the news headline was "Cadillac to get Delta II-based FWD sedan", then yes, it would be relevant. I still think that calling the Catera the sucessor to the Cimarron is a bit of a stretch.

[Slideways]

Originally Posted by mgescuro

The IS isn't that good of a car.
If you are striving to be the #1 luxury car company, why would GM aim for what is arguably #5 in the market segment?

3, C, A4, G, then IS...

Because it's arguably the (2nd) best looking

G, IS, A4, C, 3

I'm not talking about cachet, just looks.

[ptviperz]

Originally Posted by davidlane

Only for those who perpetually:

1. see the glass as half, or less, full

2. will only be satisfied (?) when Cadillac builds cars as unattractive as BMW and reduces their quality to match BMW's in the most recent J.D. Powers IQS.

3. consider most products and services produced in the US to be inferior to foreign (particularly German) products. Just my opinion from here in flyover country.

Who cares about the stupid INITIAL quality? I want a car that's gonna run 200K miles mostly trouble free.

My brother just traded his 98 328i in with 176K miles. The Honda dealer gave him $1800 for it. Good luck with that in a Cadillac.

[crooner214]

I'm not sure I follow some folks train of thought on this one. When Cadillac created the current CTS, who did they benchmark? I thought it was the 5-series. If that is so, why wouldn't they bench mark the 3-series?

[Quickening]

They better not be benchmarking the TSX. Acura is slowly sinking or stalling out. This car needs to have its cross-hairs on the 3 series. No question about it.

[ptviperz]

Originally Posted by Slideways

Because it's arguably the (2nd) best looking

G, IS, A4, C, 3

I'm not talking about cachet, just looks.

Well, the regular 3 is hideous....but the 335 is sexy. I don't know why they left the bangle butt on the 328.

G, 335, IS, A4, C, 328

I'd love to see something else from Cadillac that would compete with the G and 335. That would be awesome. I like the CTS but it's too big.

[davidlane]

Originally Posted by Hitman1970

Tampa, Florida is not fly over country.

For what it's worth, if it's not New York or California it's fly over country in nearly all the media and elitist circles.

[WishIhadatruck]

Originally Posted by davidlane

For what it's worth, if it's not New York or California it's fly over country in nearly all the media and elitist circles.

I was originally thinking that FL isn't flyover county either, but you have a good point.




I'm looking forward to this car. If it was going to be FWD based I'd be pretty upset but I think it is clear they have been working all along on this car (we've been hearing about Alpha for a long time) and it isn't just a reactionary product like the G3 or G5. I expect it will make a good 3 series competitor. GM needs to get its ENTIRE act together from every division, top to bottom, because negative press about ANY aspect of the company lowers the value of any one part of the company. Thanks to a handful of mediocre cars still being sold many people still look at GM as a 2nd rate car company and won't elevate Cadillac as high as a MB or BMW because of it. They have a lot to overcome. I think they will get there if they can survive in the meantime.

[johnstarnes]

Originally Posted by Slideways

If the news headline was "Cadillac to get Delta II-based FWD sedan", then yes, it would be relevant. I still think that calling the Catera the sucessor to the Cimarron is a bit of a stretch.

For me, there is relevance in that a small, low-end Cadillac is once again being considered. I see the Catera as the successor to the Cimarron in that both were smaller, lower end Cadillacs that were brazen rebadges of other GM cars, barely tweaked visually from the less-than-inspiring cars from which they were derived. I still wince to think of those dreadful Catera "The Caddy that Zigs" commercials, almost as bad as those ones for the Oldsmobile Trofeo the Bellafonte siblings sang together.

[megeebee]

Originally Posted by johnstarnes

For me, there is relevance in that a small, low-end Cadillac is once again being considered. I see the Catera as the successor to the Cimarron in that both were smaller, lower end Cadillacs that were brazen rebadges of other GM cars, barely tweaked visually from the less-than-inspiring cars from which they were derived. I still wince to think of those dreadful Catera "The Caddy that Zigs" commercials, almost as bad as those ones for the Oldsmobile Trofeo the Bellafonte siblings sang together.

In defense of the Catera:

While it was indeed based on another car, it wasn't cheaper or uninspiring. The Opel Omega occupied the same relative market position in Europe that the Catera did in the US. It competed with the lower priced versions of the BMW 5 and Mercedes E, and at the time (mid-90's) was a very highly regarded car in Europe.

Unlike Catera's Japanese competitors, the car it was based on was not, and had never been, for sale in the US. At the time, the Infiniti I30 was indeed a tarted up Maxima and looked it. The ES always has been a version of the Camry. But the Catera, in the US, was its own car. The very definintion of exclusive.

I never could fathom why so much poison ink was spilled on the Catera at the time. Its attributes and qualities as a car were almost always over shadowed by the predjudices of the press. When the Omega appeared in Europe the press scorned GM (as it loves to do any time it can) for not selling it here. It arrived with a Cadillac badge on it, and the venom flowed. Terms like "Chromed up Opel" appeared often, ignoring the fact that all of it's competitors sported 3 times the amount of bright work (The only chrome on the Catera was the grille header, a pencil-thin line across the tail lights, and the optional wheels).

The Catera is often sited as a failure, but was not. I read somewhere that 45% of those sold were to people that had never bought a GM vehicle before.

There isn't anyone alive today that can convince me to say anything good about the Cimarron.

[70eldo]

Originally Posted by crooner214

I'm not sure I follow some folks train of thought on this one. When Cadillac created the current CTS, who did they benchmark? I thought it was the 5-series. If that is so, why wouldn't they bench mark the 3-series?

The CTS WAS benchmarked to the 3-series initially. But since it was just slightly bigger in dimensions and better standard equiped, in Europe they compared it to the 5-series just to be able to bring the CTS down to protect their own products. (C&D reports tests CTS vs 328 and AutoBild compares CTS with 530i, E320, A6 and Volvo S80).

Now the CTS is even slightly bigger and even Cadillac puts it up against the 5-series as they want their new BTS to run up against the 3-series. If you compare the prices though, I would still put the CTS in the 3-series class and the BTS in the 1-series class. I hope the new STS/DTS will then compete the 5-series. That's how I would see it.

Although the new CTS is bigger and better equiped, it is still not as big as a 5-series or E-class. I am just happy it is not that expensive and flattered they rather compare the CTS to a higher class. I am a proud CTS owner!