Cadillac History

[bbshriver]

Interesting notes... I never knew they were looking into this in the 60's
http://blog.hemmings.com/index.php/2...lti-cylinders/

[MCGARRETT]

in about 1959, Cadillac engineers and stylists came up with the idea of resurrecting the V-12 and V-16 partly to counter the Continental Mark II, partly to power the upcoming Eldorado. The effort apparently led to a few experimental engines, along with one full-size fiberglass mockup, but was never shown to the public until Langworth’s story.

Couple of things here dont make sense, first in 1959 the Mark II had already been discontinued for 2 years, they were making the Mark III, which was essentially a trimed up standard Lincoln, not it's own unique $10,000 coupe as it had been before. Cadillac really didn't start thinking about the Eldorado until 1961 or so. Not to say that Cadillac wasn't thinking about V12-16 engines around that time, just saying that those aren't the reasons.

[OLDSCHOOLGMFAN]

Plum interesting.

[megeebee]

I always chuckle when I read a post here by someone that complains bitterly that 3 years is just far too long a gestation period for a car. The car that was the 1967 Eldorado was toyed with, planned, thought about, and argued over, designed and redesigned for six or seven years before showing up at a dealer.

And yes, many proposals were put forward for large engines with excess of 8 cylinders in the late fifties/ sixties. If there was an internet then, imagine all the venom from the likes of MGESCURO et al there would be about how stupid/ blind/self-defeating/ ignorant/"fail"/ etc. Cadillac was being for not doing it.

[sonjaab]

If there was an internet then, imagine all the venom from the likes of MGESCURO et al there would be about how stupid/ blind/self-defeating/ ignorant/"fail"/ etc. Cadillac was being for not doing it.

LOL! SO TRUE! Lets not forget the "GM sucks" drivel also.................

[Canuck]

Couple of things here dont make sense, first in 1959 the Mark II had already been discontinued for 2 years, they were making the Mark III, which was essentially a trimed up standard Lincoln, not it's own unique $10,000 coupe as it had been before. Cadillac really didn't start thinking about the Eldorado until 1961 or so. Not to say that Cadillac wasn't thinking about V12-16 engines around that time, just saying that those aren't the reasons.

Cadillac did get as far a building a V12 in the 60s.

http://www.chromjuwelen.com/de/netwo...tos-found.html

Times have, apparently, changed. When Richard Langworth went looking for photos of the 1960s Cadillac V-12 to prove its existence for the story he wrote on that episode of Cadillac history in Special Interest Autos, he came up empty-handed. But after a few well-placed e-mails, GM’s Heritage Center (which now has one of the engines on display) sent along these three photos of what it called the V-Future V-12.

The mention that it’s at the Heritage Center sent me back to look over the photos I took when I visited the center in 2008 and, indeed, I did take a shot of an unlabeled Cadillac overhead-camshaft V-12 engine similar to, but substantially different from the one in these photos.

As you can see, it is indeed of an overhead-camshaft design, with a distributor running off the snout of each camshaft, though the Heritage Center engine seems to have a dummy distributor in addition to the camshaft-mounted distributors. Despite the accessories bolted to the engine, the one in the photos is obviously still somewhat roughed-in,

[balthazar]

Couple of things here dont make sense, first in 1959 the Mark II had already been discontinued for 2 years, they were making the Mark III, which was essentially a trimed up standard Lincoln, not it's own unique $10,000 coupe as it had been before. Cadillac really didn't start thinking about the Eldorado until 1961 or so. Not to say that Cadillac wasn't thinking about V12-16 engines around that time, just saying that those aren't the reasons.

It wasn't the Mark II; it was the Continental. LOT of buzz there in '61 & up - makes sense Cadillac would consider a 'buzz' retort.

Cadillac did start a new unique Eldorado program in the early '60s... the full-size 1961 clay (XP-727) that was initially badged as 'LaSalle II" ended up being the catalyst for the Riviera (XP-715). There were other unique Caddy designs, but the car that was the clear bodyshell catalyst for the production '67 E was done in "late 1963" (XP-820).

The Cadillac V-12 programs was of course intriquing, but not directly related. Cadillac built (6) 500 CI, aluminum-block, SOHC V-12s with all sorts of different induction (3x2, 2x4 and FI). Testing returned over 400HP & 500 TRQ. Cadillac retains one of the 6 motors today.

[cad1cts]

It's too bad they never built those motors!!! (beyond testing examples) =/ God I'd love to get behind the wheel of a car powered by one of those!

[balthazar]

It would be a thrill no doubt, tho by '70 Cadillac had 400 HP & 550 TRQ in a 500 CI V8.

[MCGARRETT]

It would be a thrill no doubt, tho by '70 Cadillac had 400 HP & 550 TRQ in a 500 CI V8.

Thats probably the reason they never saw production, the all new 472 V8 in 1968 was making 375hp and 525lp ft of tq, with one carb, one cam and less complexity.

[t-rex]

It would be a thrill no doubt, tho by '70 Cadillac had 400 HP & 550 TRQ in a 500 CI V8.

In "Fox News" Gross SAE figures maybe.

That's less than a modern Camaro V6. Well, horsepower-wise.

Still though, I blame it on Scandinavian-Americans and that gottdamn lutefisk...

[balthazar]

In that we are comparing '63 numbers to '70 numbers, and SAE net ratings didn't come out until '71, the comparison is valid.

>>"That's less than a modern Camaro V6"<<
Strip all the electronics & tech off a current Camaro V6 and replace it with a 2bbl carb and it'd be right back down around 140 net HP. Apples to rutabagas.

[Uzzy]

The coupe with the sharp beak does remind me a lot of the Sixteen that came out in 2003. Something about the profile of it and the body work. I wonder if there was some intention to make them similar, or it just happened. I still hold out hope Cadillac will be able to put out some real life Sixteens and Ciens when things get rolling again.

[2002 Caddy]

It was killed by CAFE (in 1962)

[Hudson]

...first in 1959 the Mark II had already been discontinued for 2 years, they were making the Mark III, which was essentially a trimed up standard Lincoln

While balthazar is probably right and they were referring to the 1961 Continental (which would fall into your Eldorado time frame better), the 1959 Lincoln Continental model was the MarK IV (Mark III was 1958 and Mark V was 1960).

Also, you can find a similar article in one of my favorite books, "Cars that Never Were" (edited by Richard Langworth).