2009 Buick Official Changes

[MCGARRETT]

So whats your solution?


Can we hop in your time machine and go fix the problem?


Would you buy a LaCrosse or a Lucerne if they had a more than 4 speeds? and by "buy" I mean are you a gainfully employed adult with a driver license and an income level that allows you to purchase a $25,000 plus vehicle?

[Old Dood]

Originally Posted by crazyjkz

I do read, and that was a type-O, I mean't to type "almost 1 year away". And like I said before that still doesn't change the fact that ever since the LaCrosse's AND Lucerne's introduction they both have used outdated engines and transmissions especially considering their premium price tags, and they are unfortunately continuing to do so for the 2009 model year. The ONLY exception to that was the brief period of time that the LaCrosse had the 3.6HF option, which of course GM has gotten rid of for 2009, and even when it did have the 3.6HF option it was tuned for only about 240hp and STILL saddled with a 4-speed auto. Unacceptable for a brand that is marketed and imaged by GM as "premium" and "affordable luxury".

Let me share something with you.
I have a Buick with that Outdated Engine (3.8L) and a 4 Transmission....OK?
It is 'Butter Smooth'. I never feel it shift gears. The engine will last for years and years....

I have a 6 speed 07 Camry XLE. It is smooth but not 'Butter Smooth'. I can feel it shift.
When I have both cars up to 70mph they both will read near or just under 2K on the Tach.
Meaning, my Camry is faster at getting up to speed but once it is there the extra gears do not lower the RPMs one bit.
The Camry's 6th gear seems as equal to my Buick's 4th gear.

You can still purchase a Lucerne with a 3.8L engine that as far as I am conderned is one of thee best engines ever made.
It will ride beautifully and it's engine and it's tranny will work for a long, long time if you take good care of it.

EDIT: Crap...this is about the 09 year. Well, still the other V6 is still a decent one.
Well, Lucerne wise anyways...you still can get the 3.8L in the LaCrosse.

[Michael_S]

Originally Posted by MCGARRETT

So whats your solution?


Can we hop in your time machine and go fix the problem?


Would you buy a LaCrosse or a Lucerne if they had a more than 4 speeds? and by "buy" I mean are you a gainfully employed adult with a driver license and an income level that allows you to purchase a $25,000 plus vehicle?

I think crazyjkz is just venting. I can't blame him. At this point, it doesn't look like GM can do anything differently unless you want to shut down Buick's car sales for almost a year.

But I can't help but wonder what management was thinking in 2001 and 2002 when the groundwork for Buick's current lineup was laid. The brilliance behind the Enclave obviously didn't extend to the sedans.

[EDIT] And be fair - if only people who were going to buy the vehicles in question were allowed to voice a strong opinion, this place would be empty. So what if he isn't going to get a Buick any time soon? Some day he might be a potential Buick customer - provided GM does a good job with the new LaCrosse and never lets up again.

[MCGARRETT]

These cars were long done when the Enclave program began.

[crazyjkz]

Originally Posted by Michael_S

I think crazyjkz is just venting. I can't blame him. At this point, it doesn't look like GM can do anything differently unless you want to shut down Buick's car sales for almost a year.

But I can't help but wonder what management was thinking in 2001 and 2002 when the groundwork for Buick's current lineup was laid. The brilliance behind the Enclave obviously didn't extend to the sedans.

[EDIT] And be fair - if only people who were going to buy the vehicles in question were allowed to voice a strong opinion, this place would be empty. So what if he isn't going to get a Buick any time soon? Some day he might be a potential Buick customer - provided GM does a good job with the new LaCrosse and never lets up again.

In a way I am just venting because I am a longtime GM fan and I'm just getting very frusturated with this constant "wait till next year" philosophy that GM has apparently taken on in the last couple of years, and obviously I'm not the only one because you hear lots of different people on this forum talk about this also. All I'm trying to say here is that if GM keeps on telling the auto consumers not to worry and to just keep on waiting one more model year after another for the better stuff I feel that this is NOT CONDUSIVE to a successful auto company, plain and simple, and I can't really see how ANYONE could possibly disagree with that.

GM seems to put themselves in bad situations by their own doing by poor management decisions and then afterwards it's almost as if they sit around and wonder why they are having problems with maintaining a solid image and customer-base. It's like people that smoke heavily for years and years and then wonder why they get lung cancer. Well when you think about it logically it's really not such a big surprise when they have been slacking off with the powertrains of every Buick model with the exception of the Enclave for years now.

Originally Posted by MCGARRETT

So whats your solution?


Can we hop in your time machine and go fix the problem?


Would you buy a LaCrosse or a Lucerne if they had a more than 4 speeds? and by "buy" I mean are you a gainfully employed adult with a driver license and an income level that allows you to purchase a $25,000 plus vehicle?

Well unfortunately at this point their's really no quick fix that GM can do to solve the lack of competitiveness of the powertrains in most Buick models right now, but one thing GM definitely could of NOT done for 2009 was to delete the 3.6HF from the LaCrosse at this point in the game, 4-speed auto or not. I really don't understand the reasoning behind why they would of done that. Another thing GM could of done to help fix the problem would of been to put more effort into a quicker release of the 2010 LaCrosse.

The sad truth is that unfortunately all we can do is sit back and wait for the 2010 LaCrosse to come out next year. However the problem inherent in that is GM is going to be damaging Buick's image even worse now by taking this course of action. If GM didn't attach the premium price tag and image to the LaCrosse and Lucerne then the outdated powertrains wouldn't be as ludicrous as they are.

And you suggesting that we "hop in my time machine and go back and fix the problem" is exactly my point, because like Michael_S said, it really makes you wonder what what management was thinking in 2001 and 2002 when the groundwork for Buick's current lineup was laid, because all of this fumbling around with the outdated powertrains could of been prevented years ago before the LaCrosse and Lucerne were even introduced into the showrooms.

And yes, if the Lacrosse did have the 3.6HF and 6-speed auto then I would definitely have considered buying one over my Aura. I think it's a classy and elegant looking car inside and out that is just begging for a better platform and powertrain, and that also goes for the Lucerne, and I think that most would agree with me on this. I'd be willing to bet you that GM has lost a lot more potential-buyers of the LaCrosse and Lucerne because of the OHV V6/4-speed auto than you think.

GM needs to stop living in the future and start living in the present, because this would solve many of their poor decision-making issues such as this.

[Michael_S]

Originally Posted by MCGARRETT

These cars were long done when the Enclave program began.

Well, if they had enough time since these cars were finished to build the Enclave, then they had enough time to replace the LaCrosse and Lucerne sooner.

[megeebee]

Originally Posted by 1G6

As a soon-to-be Lucerne customer (I 'll sign papers tomorrow) I have to say that the 4-speed/3800, in my case, is an asset.

I don't like my CTS' 5-speed, which is tuned to European tastes. The Hydra-Matic 4T65 will be welcome in my garage, as will the durable 3800. The Northstar in my DTS is awesome to drive but I just don't believe in taking them past 100,000 miles.

Pictures please. I love the Lucerene. I'm VERY anxious to see the new blue color for 2009.

[crazyjkz]

Originally Posted by Michael_S

Well, if they had enough time since these cars were finished to build the Enclave, then they had enough time to replace the LaCrosse and Lucerne sooner.

Another very good point. I do realize that GM has been and will probably always be building Buicks primarily for the senior population, however until the 2010 LaCrosse hits the showrooms next year and the replacement for the Lucerne is introduced and they both feature modern platforms and DOHC V6s/6-speed autos it's a little hard for me to understand the true purpose of Buick as a whole at this point in the game.

It makes even less sense to me why Buick is even around anymore especially when considering how successful Cadillac has been as a whole in the premium/luxury segment, and all the new Cadillac models have been extremely competitive and kept modern and up-to-date, and Cadillac is still covering the senior crowd like it's always been. It seems as though Cadillac has been easily covering the premium/luxury segment for GM just fine on its own without the help of Buick, it certainly has the modern/competitive model line-up to do so.

Your current typical Lucerne costs around 32-35k and is built on an outdated platform with a 4-speed auto and OHV V6. Your average 2008 CTS is built on an extremely capable and modern platform with very competitive/modern DOHC V6s and 6-speed autos and costs around the same as your average Lucerne, so although the Lucerne is a bit larger than the CTS and is fwd it's beyond me as to why anybody would choose a Lucerne over a CTS when the CTS is around the same price and outperforms the Lucerne in every way.

I guess we really are going to have to see Buick's entire new model line-up as a whole once the 2010 LaCrosse and the Lucerne replacement is introduced together with the current Enclave(which is a highly capable and competitive vehicle as -is) before we can make any snap judgements. But I still believe that the current outdated LaCrosse and Lucerne could have been prevented by better GM management decision-making back in 2001 and 2002 when the groundwork for Buick's current lineup was laid.

[1G6]

Originally Posted by crazyjkz

Your current typical Lucerne costs around 32-35k and is built on an outdated platform with a 4-speed auto and OHV V6. Your average 2008 CTS is built on an extremely capable and modern platform with very competitive/modern DOHC V6s and 6-speed autos and costs around the same as your average Lucerne, so although the Lucerne is a bit larger than the CTS and is fwd it's beyond me as to why anybody would choose a Lucerne over a CTS when the CTS is around the same price and outperforms the Lucerne in every way.

Why? The CTS, while gorgeous, is smaller, noisier and boasts a ride that is great for carving up the backroads but leaves much to be desired in the city and on the highway (at least IMHO.)

The Lucerne CXL with every option except the blind zone/lane departure warning system stickers at around $36k. The CTS is essentially a stripper model at that price point.

The choice is easy for me. My Cadillac fanhood is rooted in the isolation tanks of the '70s, and the current Caddys are leaving that behind. Buick seems primed to carry that torch.

[crazyjkz]

Originally Posted by 1G6

Why? The CTS, while gorgeous, is smaller, noisier and boasts a ride that is great for carving up the backroads but leaves much to be desired in the city and on the highway (at least IMHO.)

The Lucerne CXL with every option except the blind zone/lane departure warning system stickers at around $36k. The CTS is essentially a stripper model at that price point.

The choice is easy for me. My Cadillac fanhood is rooted in the isolation tanks of the '70s, and the current Caddys are leaving that behind. Buick seems primed to carry that torch.

To me it seems as if Buick has become the true "dinosaur" of GM's auto brands with the exception of the modern Enclave, and GM hasn't appeared to be willing to spend virtually ANY money on modernization for the Buick line-up until just very recently with the introduction of the 2010 LaCrosse and Lucerne replacement. The current LaCrosse and Lucerne are built on archaic dinosaur platforms that should of been replaced by 2008/2009 at the absolute LATEST.

Cadillac as a whole has done far better in the premium/luxury segment then Buick could have ever dreamed to do, and has the kind of modern and competitive model line-up that Buick should envy at this point. If GM is serious about keeping Buick around as a truly successful premium/luxury auto brand then they need to follow a similar kind of modernization program with regards to Buick as they have done with Cadillac but with more of an emphasis on elegant yet affordable luxury for primarily the older generation obviously. I guess we'll have to wait and see when the new LaCrosse and Lucerne replacements are introduced into the showrooms to truly find out how serious GM is about keeping Buick around for the future.

[Old Dood]

Originally Posted by crazyjkz

To me it seems as if Buick has become the true "dinosaur" of GM's auto brands with the exception of the modern Enclave, and GM hasn't appeared to be willing to spend virtually ANY money on modernization for the Buick line-up until just very recently with the introduction of the 2010 LaCrosse and Lucerne replacement. The current LaCrosse and Lucerne are built on archaic dinosaur platforms that should of been replaced by 2008/2009 at the absolute LATEST.

I agree that Buick needs to 'modernize' to a point.
They need to put as many of the newer gadgets into their cars as possible.
As for the platforms if I am understand you correctly I think are very 'sell-able'.
I think it was foolish to get rid of the LeSabre. They should have brought that car up to speed with the more modern gadgets.
Make it the only line that is more Ala-Cart fashion when ordering options.
Do not mix everything with packages.
Why?
Because it is not unknown that older people will buy these cars and older people are more frugel.
They do not want to be dazzeled with packages and such. They want to know bottom line and be done with it.

They also like their vehicles big and comfortable like a Buick should always be. These customers do not care about 0-60 times.
They simply want enough power to get around a Semi or a RV.
They do not want to feel a tight suspension. They want a soft one.

The 3.8L was and still is a good engine for this crowd. Sure some of the older set want a V8. That is availible too.

You cannot make Buick a Cadillac. Buick has been a dumbed down Caddy for years now and it cannot play that role anymore.
Now that Cadillac is going for the more upwardly mobile crowd then GM needs a car line for the Old Schoolers.
People forget that their values WILL CHANGE and a Buick that they would have hated at 20-30 years of age they just might look forward to when they reach 40 and up.
WHY?
Because our bodies change. They hurt more. What people thought was important once is not a value to them when they get older.
Sitting in a LeSabre, Park Ave, Lucerne even, is a nice ..."Ahhhh..."
Buick needs to simply allow people what options they want without making it ridiculosly expensive.
Other words make it available to get ANY option you want with ANY engine you want.
I see just as many V6s on the road (Lucernes) as I do V8s.
What about the person that wants Magna-ride and does not want a damn V8?

The older crowd is not 'so old' as they use to be either. They are more savvy when it comes to 'gadgets'.
They want Blue-Tooth, AUX Jacks, NAV Screens, etc too now.
Make is AVAILABLE!

Why do you think the Toyota Avalon is pretty popular?
It has all of the above now. Except a V8 which people do not mind with Toyota's 3.5 V6.
I could blind fold people and put them in the passenger's seat then drive them around in an Avalon and I am willing to bet they would LOVE the RIDE.

Buick is an Odd Duck that Iwill agree but, it could be so much more.
Keep the larger bodies on these cars. HyBrid some.
Make gadgets available.
They could even 'try' to Saturnize Buick. Lock the price.

Many things can be done. Buick is a valuable line.
The younger crowd does not see it....yet!

[Exploder]

It would be nice if all the Chinese Buicks were available in the US.

[1G6]

Originally Posted by crazyjkz

To me it seems as if Buick has become the true "dinosaur" of GM's auto brands with the exception of the modern Enclave, and GM hasn't appeared to be willing to spend virtually ANY money on modernization for the Buick line-up until just very recently with the introduction of the 2010 LaCrosse and Lucerne replacement. The current LaCrosse and Lucerne are built on archaic dinosaur platforms that should of been replaced by 2008/2009 at the absolute LATEST.

Cadillac as a whole has done far better in the premium/luxury segment then Buick could have ever dreamed to do, and has the kind of modern and competitive model line-up that Buick should envy at this point. If GM is serious about keeping Buick around as a truly successful premium/luxury auto brand then they need to follow a similar kind of modernization program with regards to Buick as they have done with Cadillac but with more of an emphasis on elegant yet affordable luxury for primarily the older generation obviously. I guess we'll have to wait and see when the new LaCrosse and Lucerne replacements are introduced into the showrooms to truly find out how serious GM is about keeping Buick around for the future.

GM has made it clear what they're doing. Cadillac will be for people who like the drive, and Buick will be for those more interested in the ride.

[1G6]

Originally Posted by Old Dood

The older crowd is not 'so old' as they use to be either. They are more savvy when it comes to 'gadgets'.
They want Blue-Tooth, AUX Jacks, NAV Screens, etc too now.
Make is AVAILABLE!

The CXL V6 can be ordered with all the V8 stuff with the exception of the real wood trim, foglights and Magnaride.

[Old Dood]

Originally Posted by 1G6

The CXL V6 can be ordered with all the V8 stuff with the exception of the real wood trim, foglights and Magnaride.

Sorry...Still Not Good Enough!

EDIT: Not when I can get an Avalon with Front Seat Extenders, Rear Reclining Seats, Variable Heat/Cool Seats.

These are nice touches. The Avalon to me is where Buick should be now...