2009 Buick Official Changes

[jfnz24]

Originally Posted by autofan

Also, I have no need for a V8 LaCrosse or Lucerne, but those models (both Supers) are the models that are most visually appealing. I wish they would offer an appearance pkg for both cars that gave you at least some of the look of the Super without jumping all the way up to the big motor.

I second that opinion. Why can't we get the better looks with the lower engine?

I am also disappointed to hear of the 3.9/4 instead of the 3.6/6 combo. I would probably pick the Lucerne over the Impala if it had the 3.6. However, many will choose what I will probably choose, the Impala with the 3.9 instead, just because of price vs. size.

[crazyjkz]

You know, I'm pretty dissappointed that their are still quite a few 2009 GM vehicles that STILL use ridiculously outdated 4-speed automatics. Honestly I was expecting pretty much every GM model to have the new 6-speed autos standard for 2009 with maybe the exception of the base model entry level Cobalt/G5/Astra, and even those models should AT LEAST have the 6-spd auto as an OPTION by 2009, and sadly they don't.

It's very disheartening to see that GM still doesn't understand that any car that is priced above 20k and that still uses an outdated/archaic 4-speed auto is UNACCEPTABLE for the 2009 model year, plain and simple, and they have shown this by continuing to saddle higher end luxury models such as the Buick Lucerne and Lacrosse with outdated 4-spd autos. At the very least the 6-spd auto should of been made an option on the 2009 Lucerne and Lacrosse, and unfortunately it isn't. This is absolutely unacceptable for the 2009 model year.

Think about this, the Honda Civic doesn't even use a 4-spd auto anymore and yet most Buick models which are approximately DOUBLE the price of the Honda Civic still have 4spd autos STANDARD for the 2009 model year. Am I the only person who sees a serious problem with that??

And what's up with the DELETION of the 3.6HF from the Lacrosse and the addition of the 3900 in the Lucerne? And why is the Lacrosse still using the ridiculously outdated 3800? Both the Lacrosse and the Lucerne should of had the 3.6HF/6-spd combo as their STANDARD V6 powertrain, no exceptions. Buick is suppose to be affordable luxury people, and affordable luxury shouldn't be saddled with outdated and unrefined pushrod V6/4-spd auto powertrains for 2009. If GM can't figure this stuff out on their own then they really still don't get it.

Although I was very glad to see that the 6-spd auto was FINALLY made standard in the Aura for 2009 and they also got rid of the 3500 which was another good move, why is it that the 2009 Malibu and G6 still have the 4spd auto as the standard base-model transmission and the 6-spd auto is only an option on the base models? GM told Edmunds that the 6-spd auto was going to be made STANDARD on all Malibu models for 2009, and unfortunately this didn't happen.

The point I'm trying to make here is that we are now talking about the 2009 model year, and GM has had several years to get production ramped up to an acceptable level, yet their are still quite a few GM models that will still be saddled with 4-spd autos for the 2009 model year, and on many of these models the 6-spd auto wasn't even made available as an OPTION. GM must understand that this is completely unacceptable for 2009, especially when much cheaper sub-compact/compact import models now have 5 and 6-speed autos/CVTs made STANDARD.

And GM can no longer use the excuse that they don't have the production of the 6spd auto units high enough to be able to use them in most of their vehicles, because they have had the last few years to ramp up production. Every GM make and model with the exception of their cheapest bare-bones subcompact/compact models should of had the 6-spd auto made STANDARD for the 2009 model year. If reviewers and critics were complaining about GM's use of 4-spd autos for the 2007/2008 model years just imagine how bad they are going to bash GM for the 2009 model year.

Sorry GM but their's really no more valid excuses left now that we are approaching the year 2009, and if the addition of the 6-speed auto units to all new 2009 models isn't a #1 priority then GM has once again shown they really still don't get it.

[Michael_S]

crazyjkz,

I agree with your points. But I have a guess why this is happening: GM is cleaning out old stock.

The 3800s and 3.9s and 3.5s and 4 speed autos are probably already built. And remember, the 3.6 that was in the LaCrosse was an unusual tune of the engine - 240 horsepower mated to a 4 speed auto, instead of the 6 speed/252 in the G6 GTP, Aura V6, and Malibu V6.

I'm betting they are limiting options because they plan on assembling the last bit of parts for the current Impala, LaCrosse, and Lucerne with this stuff just to get rid of it. Then those engines and transmissions will be finished.

I don't like it, but I can see why things went this way.

[wescoent]

These powertrain shuffles appear to be more like a last hurrah of the old GM, rather than an indicator of things to come.

GM just needs to get its product line synced up between brands. Right now we have a Malibu from Chevrolet, and a Lacrosse from Buick. The Malibu is the superior car in every way. Yet the Lacrosse costs more and is sold under a premium brand?

I am a firm believer that GM's brand structure is capable of making the company the unstoppable #1 producer of automobiles in the world, in both quantity, quality, and public regard. However, this only works if the structure is well-planned and well-managed.

The Enclave proves to me that General Motors knows how to build a vehicle worthy of the Buick name. The Lacrosse and Lucerne were enormous steps forward for their time, and now is the time when we take another big step forward.

My grandparents proudly drove Buicks in the 1960's, back when the Riviera was envisioned as an American combination of Ferrari and Rolls Royce. I will happily drive a modern Buick with half the style and passion that car radiated when it drove down the street.

[SAngelo]

Crazyjkz, I agree, this is flatout unacceptable for 2009 to still have 4 speed automatics. How can the Lucerne and the Lacrosse still have 4 speeds in addition to the Impala, the DTS, Cobalt etc still use this antiquated architecture. If the W and G Body cant fit the 6 speeds then these platforms should not be used, period !!!!! I am so sick of this crap, get rid of these dated models if you are not going to give them the proper updates.

Come on GM !!!!!
Come on GM !!!!!
Come on GM !!!!!
Come on GM !!!!!

[crazyjkz]

Originally Posted by Michael_S

crazyjkz,

I agree with your points. But I have a guess why this is happening: GM is cleaning out old stock.

The 3800s and 3.9s and 3.5s and 4 speed autos are probably already built. And remember, the 3.6 that was in the LaCrosse was an unusual tune of the engine - 240 horsepower mated to a 4 speed auto, instead of the 6 speed/252 in the G6 GTP, Aura V6, and Malibu V6.

I'm betting they are limiting options because they plan on assembling the last bit of parts for the current Impala, LaCrosse, and Lucerne with this stuff just to get rid of it. Then those engines and transmissions will be finished.

I don't like it, but I can see why things went this way.

Originally Posted by SAngelo

Crazyjkz, I agree, this is flatout unacceptable for 2009 to still have 4 speed automatics. How can the Lucerne and the Lacrosse still have 4 speeds in addition to the Impala, the DTS, Cobalt etc still use this antiquated architecture. If the W and G Body cant fit the 6 speeds then these platforms should not be used, period !!!!! I am so sick of this crap, get rid of these dated models if you are not going to give them the proper updates.

Come on GM !!!!!

Thanks for the feedback guys. And Michael_S, I agree with you on that, I also believe that the reason why GM is still using the 3800/4spd and 3900/4spd powertrains in the 2009 Lacrosse/Lucerne is due to the fact that they are simply trying to clean out old stock of engines/transmissions that they already have built.

Unfortunately this really is a shame though because its going to significantly weaken Buick's brand image because Buick is marketed as a premium brand which offers "affordable luxury", and now that you can easily spend 15-20k(approximately half the cost of the average Lucerne) on a compact/midsize FWD model from pretty much any import make out there and get a 5 or 6-speed auto or CVT transmission STANDARD, and these models aren't even built to be affordable luxury and they aren't from premium brands, we are talking about Nissan/Toyota/Honda here people, cheap economy cars that cost as much as HALF the price of your average Lucerne!

If GM is going to market, build, and price a brand as "affordable luxury" and "premium" then they have absolutely NO valid excuses left for continuing to use outdated pushrod V6/4spd auto powertrains in 2009 model Buicks which cost as much as 35k.

The point here is that GM seriously needs to understand by now that if they are going to market and price the make/model as "premium/luxury" and give it a premium image then this type of negligence in the powertrain department isn't going to fly anymore now that we are approaching the 2009 model year.

[1G6]

As a soon-to-be Lucerne customer (I 'll sign papers tomorrow) I have to say that the 4-speed/3800, in my case, is an asset.

I don't like my CTS' 5-speed, which is tuned to European tastes. The Hydra-Matic 4T65 will be welcome in my garage, as will the durable 3800. The Northstar in my DTS is awesome to drive but I just don't believe in taking them past 100,000 miles.

[MCGARRETT]

Some of you people are acting as if Buick just launched the LaCrosse, the LaCrosse is a dead car walking, they are not spending the money a car that has maybe another 5 months of production before it replacement rolls out, sorry, thats not how the business works kids. Yes, the LaCrosse will continue to use the 4 speed and 3800 until the W body Buick goes off to the big parking lot in the sky, in about 5 months when the 2010 LaCrosse/Invicta debuts, and that WILL feature 6 speed automatics and DOHC engines across the range.



I dont have a problem with the Lucerne's new base motor, I would keep the 3900 for the base model and replace the NStar with the 270hp 3.6 DOHC with the 6 speed automatic. Though I expect that the Lucerne will be gone by late 2010-2011 when the Zeta based replacement makes it's debut.

[Michael_S]

Originally Posted by MCGARRETT

Some of you people are acting as if Buick just launched the LaCrosse, the LaCrosse is a dead car walking, they are not spending the money a car that has maybe another 5 months of production before it replacement rolls out, sorry, thats not how the business works kids. Yes, the LaCrosse will continue to use the 4 speed and 3800 until the W body Buick goes off to the big parking lot in the sky, in about 5 months when the 2010 LaCrosse/Invicta debuts, and that WILL feature 6 speed automatics and DOHC engines across the range.

Is the 2010 LaCrosse coming out this year?

[DuSpinnst]

Originally Posted by Michael_S

Is the 2010 LaCrosse coming out this year?

January 2009. So in 8 months.

The 2009 LaCrosse will exist for 5 months, August to December.

[DuSpinnst]

Originally Posted by crazyjkz

Thanks for the feedback guys. And Michael_S, I agree with you on that, I also believe that the reason why GM is still using the 3800/4spd and 3900/4spd powertrains in the 2009 Lacrosse/Lucerne is due to the fact that they are simply trying to clean out old stock of engines/transmissions that they already have built.

Unfortunately this really is a shame though because its going to significantly weaken Buick's brand image because Buick is marketed as a premium brand which offers "affordable luxury", and now that you can easily spend 15-20k(approximately half the cost of the average Lucerne) on a compact/midsize FWD model from pretty much any import make out there and get a 5 or 6-speed auto or CVT transmission STANDARD, and these models aren't even built to be affordable luxury and they aren't from premium brands, we are talking about Nissan/Toyota/Honda here people, cheap economy cars that cost as much as HALF the price of your average Lucerne!

If GM is going to market, build, and price a brand as "affordable luxury" and "premium" then they have absolutely NO valid excuses left for continuing to use outdated pushrod V6/4spd auto powertrains in 2009 model Buicks which cost as much as 35k.

The point here is that GM seriously needs to understand by now that if they are going to market and price the make/model as "premium/luxury" and give it a premium image then this type of negligence in the powertrain department isn't going to fly anymore now that we are approaching the 2009 model year.

6-speeds and the DOHC V6 don't fit into the G/K Body, the Northstar FWD doesn't work with the FWD 6-Speed (It could be made to work, but right now it doesn't). The 6-speed doesn't work with the 3500 or 3900 (same reason it doesn't work with Northstar FWD).

Basically the W-Body, and G/K Body are dead. Other than the LaCrosse 3.6L with the 4-speed there have been NO DOHC V6's in them, and no 6-speeds. With 6-speed production still limited there will be NO REASON to speed development on these DEAD platforms.

[Exploder]

Whatever the case, I hope GM phases out all 4-speeds by the time this decade ends.

[crazyjkz]

Originally Posted by Michael_S

Is the 2010 LaCrosse coming out this year?

Once again Michael_S you really hit the nail on the head. "Is the 2010 LaCrosse coming out this year?" See, if GM started to think like that back in the 90s then the revitalization that is happening as we speak would of came about naturally and gradually in more of an evolution rather than a revolution.

Think about it, that's how things happened with most of the import brands at the end of the 90's and into the early 2000's. Nissan/Toyota/Honda/Mazda gradually evolved their vehicles with each new redesign an every passing model year, therefore a full-scale revitalization simply wasn't necessary because they didn't slack off and let their models become so uncompetitive in the 90's like GM made the mistake of doing.

GM CANNOT keep on relying on future models to make up for uncompetitive models that are available RIGHT NOW which are seriously slacking in powertrain department with uncompetitive/outdated pushrod V6s/4spd autos if they are serious about maintaining a good brand image and a solid customer base, plain and simple.

Ever since the year 2000 when the revitalization had begun and Bob Lutz came into the picture GM has gotten into the bad habit of relying on new and improved future models to make-up for uncompetitive models that are presently in their showrooms, almost like GM is kind of living in the future rather than living in the present. It's almost as if the ideaology "wait till next year" has become the #1 motto and #1 game-plan at GM now, and GM needs to understand that the "wait till next year" ideaology WILL NEVER WORK. Consumers aren't buying it, it hasn't worked in the past and there's absolutely no reason to think that it will work for them in the future. You have to give the consumers what they want, and the consumers want the newer and better technology NOW, not LATER. Eventually the consumers are going to take a look at GM as a whole and start to ask themselves "why do we always have to wait for the good stuff??", and ultimately that question will lead to an overall lower brand image and a reduced customer-base.

And although the 2010 LaCrosse will feature modern and competitive DOHC V6's with 6-speed autos, and that's great, but the 2010 LaCrosse isn't going to be available to consumers for close to 1 more year, so explain to me how that's going to help GM's use of outdated/uncompetitive powertrains in most Buick models for 2008/2009 right now, along with an ultimately declining brand image and consumer base??? GM is constantly playing catch-up with most of the other auto makes out there thanks to their own doing.

And again, it is completely irrevelant to whether or not any vehicle really needs 6 gear ratios in it's automatic transmission, because honestly we all know that 6 gears is a little bit of overkill, it's all about IMAGE and PERCEPTON guys. GM must keep up with the other auto brands out there if they are serious about remaining a major player in the auto market. If all the other auto brands have done away with 4-speed autos and replaced them with the better 5/6-speed autos and CVTs then GM has to do the same, plain and simple, not to mention the increased performance/refinement/fuel economy that comes along with these newer and better transmissions.

[DuSpinnst]

Originally Posted by crazyjkz

And just like you said Michael_S, although the 2010 LaCrosse will feature modern and competitive DOHC V6's with 6-speed autos, and that's great, but the 2010 LaCrosse isn't going to be available to consumers for almost another 2 years or so, so explain to me how that's going to help GM's use of outdated/uncompetitive powertrains in most Buick models for 2008/2009 right now, along with an ultimately declining brand image and consumer base???

Do you just RANT or do you READ? The 2010 LaCrosse will be out in JANUARY 2009, that is in 8 months, or to put it another way 5 months after the 2009 models come out. The 2009 models come out in August.

[crazyjkz]

Originally Posted by DuSpinnst

Do you just RANT or do you READ? The 2010 LaCrosse will be out in JANUARY 2009, that is in 8 months, or to put it another way 5 months after the 2009 models come out. The 2009 models come out in August.

I do read, and that was a type-O, I mean't to type "almost 1 year away". And like I said before that still doesn't change the fact that ever since the LaCrosse's AND Lucerne's introduction they both have used outdated engines and transmissions especially considering their premium price tags, and they are unfortunately continuing to do so for the 2009 model year. The ONLY exception to that was the brief period of time that the LaCrosse had the 3.6HF option, which of course GM has gotten rid of for 2009, and even when it did have the 3.6HF option it was tuned for only about 240hp and STILL saddled with a 4-speed auto. Unacceptable for a brand that is marketed and imaged by GM as "premium" and "affordable luxury".

Sure, GM can keep on telling their customers "wait till next year" and continue to live in the future rather than the present, but that's definitely NOT what the customers want to hear anymore with the extremely competitive auto market we are in right now, and when the imports have for the most part stopped using outdated 4-speed autos for the past few model years even in the makes/models that aren't premium or luxury. So GM can keep on saying wait till next year but they will be watching the parade go by at the same time.