09 DTS and Lucerne

[kgm777]

Anyone have more information about the refreshed 2009 DTS and Lucerne?

"Buick Lucerne: A minor refresh will occur on the 2009 Lucerne. This will include revising the exterior and an all-new interior. The engine lineup will also be revised to include only the 3.6L direct-injected HF V6 mated to a 6-speed automatic."

"Cadillac DTS: Like it's Buick cousin, the DTS gets a slight revisit as well as the 3.6L direct-injected HF V6 and 6-speed automatic."

From Future Product Guide.

[Hitman1970]

If they are able to make the backseat a 60/40 split fold flat and not the current pass-through, that would go a long way in putting the Lucerne as a potential replacement for me.

Still holding out hope for a zeta Park Avenue in fall of 2012.

[ehaase]

I thought that the 6 speed automatic would not fit in the G bodies.

[wescoent]

Umm... what?

Improvements to both models are pretty easy to imagine, and they amount to essentially updating them to fit the rest of their brand.

The Cadillac would get new switchgear, a CTS-style grill, and hopefully fix the awful rear.

The Buick would get the same improvements, and maybe some nicer detailing.

The engine is a big improvement over either of their current powerplants (the 3800 and FWD Northstar), but I'm not sure how customers would feel about a V6 powered Cadillac flagship.

[FenwickHockey65]

I thought the STS/DTS were being replaced by one large sports sedan?

[F14CRAZY]

Will the N* still be optional?

[megeebee]

I would be very suprised to see any real updates for these "dead-cars-walking". Would GM spend precious money on 2 cars whos sales have been in steady decline and have only 2 years of life left to them?

[jfnz24]

I'd be surprised the Northstar would be dropped also, even if just for the 10% that buy it and the name recognition. However, I could see this if it was some type of CAFE requirement. Would like to hear more info on it.

[schmallz]

Originally Posted by FenwickHockey65

I thought the STS/DTS were being replaced by one large sports sedan?

Or so the story goes.

I'm crossing my fingers for a RWD Flagship before 2012.

It should be on it's own platform, but mst of us will settle with Zeta.

[schmallz]

Originally Posted by jfnz24

I'd be surprised the Northstar would be dropped also, even if just for the 10% that buy it and the name recognition. However, I could see this if it was some type of CAFE requirement. Would like to hear more info on it.

It's name recognition now is. "Severely Underpowered V8"


It should be pumping 375, not 275.

[megeebee]

Originally Posted by jfnz24

I'd be surprised the Northstar would be dropped also, even if just for the 10% that buy it and the name recognition. However, I could see this if it was some type of CAFE requirement. Would like to hear more info on it.

Northstar is standard on the DTS, so I'd say the total was much more than 10%.

[DuSpinnst]

Originally Posted by megeebee

I would be very suprised to see any real updates for these "dead-cars-walking". Would GM spend precious money on 2 cars whos sales have been in steady decline and have only 2 years of life left to them?

Because they still sell a ****ton of them.

[megeebee]

Originally Posted by DuSpinnst

Because they still sell a ****ton of them.

Well, a half-ton anyway.
Calendar 2007 sales:

DTS: 51,469. Down from 58,000 in 2006

Lucerne: 82,923. Down from 96,000 in 2006

January 2008:

DTS: 2782. Down from 4095 Jan. 07.

Lucerene: 4840. Down from 5759 Jan 07.

Fleet sales are not seperated out in these figures, but I think they're fairly high for these 2.

It's for this reason I doubt any real enhancements aside from color and/or trim until they cease production. New interiors or trim seldom if ever increase the sales of any vehicle. The SRX for example. I would also doubt that GM would spend the money required to put a 6 speed transmission in these cars. The people that buy them simply don't care about such things.
Don't misunderstand my position. I'm very fond of both these cars, myself. I would love to see them both get more modern drivetrains and far nicer interiors. I just don't see it happening.


Source: Automotive News Data Center.

[EldoFan]

Originally Posted by megeebee

It's for this reason I doubt any real enhancements aside from color and/or trim until they cease production. New interiors or trim seldom if ever increase the sales of any vehicle. The SRX for example. I would also doubt that GM would spend the money required to put a 6 speed transmission in these cars. The people that buy them simply don't care about such things.
Don't misunderstand my position. I'm very fond of both these cars, myself. I would love to see them both get more modern drivetrains and far nicer interiors. I just don't see it happening.

Agreed........if their actually serious, I see it as little more than a token gesture to address many of the long running complaints (concerning the sorely outdated mechanicals) before the go and drop the ax on these two land yachts.

Though a 6 sp/DI'ed DTS Performance would get my blood pumping.......

[AMERICA 123]

Originally Posted by megeebee

Well, a half-ton anyway.
Calendar 2007 sales:

DTS: 51,469. Down from 58,000 in 2006

Lucerne: 82,923. Down from 96,000 in 2006

January 2008:

DTS: 2782. Down from 4095 Jan. 07.

Lucerene: 4840. Down from 5759 Jan 07.

Fleet sales are not separated out in these figures, but I think they're fairly high for these 2.

It's for this reason I doubt any real enhancements aside from color and/or trim until they cease production. New interiors or trim seldom if ever increase the sales of any vehicle. The SRX for example. I would also doubt that GM would spend the money required to put a 6 speed transmission in these cars. The people that buy them simply don't care about such things.
Don't misunderstand my position. I'm very fond of both these cars, myself. I would love to see them both get more modern drivetrains and far nicer interiors. I just don't see it happening.


Source: Automotive News Data Center.

You need at least a few more numbers for comparison and conclusion making.

Some of these would be the following;

1.) Industry performance in general.

2.) More importantly, segment and competitor performance within the segments.

3.) Other nice to haves - fleet/retail,Brand, Brand segment, Corporate, - whats hot and whats not, etc.

4.) Trends in regards to all the above.
****************************

A.) As a for instance, Calender year 2007 represented a -2.5% sized market compared to 2006.

B.) Very important to note as far as JAN2008 and these two vehicles go;

Luxury car sales were down -14.9%
and the large car segment was down -26.5%.

Total car sales were -2.3%,
total light truck sales were down -6.1%,
and total light vehicle sales were down -4.3%.

C.) NOW lets consider some other nice to know stuff - like certain Toyota and Lexus numbers.

1.).................... DEC2007 AND CALENDER YEAR 2007 RESULTS.
----- CURRENT MONTH (DEC) - - CALENDAR YEAR TO DATE --
.....................DSR % DSR %
................... 2007.. 2006 CHG...... 2007.. 2006... CHG

AVALON........ 5,694. 7,955 -28.4.. 72,945 88,938 -18.2

LS 460/600h L 3,257. 3,865 -15.7. 35,226 19,546... 79.6

GS 350......... 2,254.. 1,989. 13.3.. 21,314 23,665.. -10.2

GS 460/450h.... 325..... 299.. 8.7... 2,067.. 3,725.. -44.7

D.) Need to next look at the same group - AND a few others for JAN2008.

.......................Jan-08// 2008 YTD
----- CURRENT MONTH//CALENDAR YEAR TO DATE --
...............................................DSR %.. DSR %
...............................................200 8... 2007.... CHG
..................................AVALON. 4,155.. 6,529 -36.4

TOTAL TOYOTA DIV. PASS. CAR. 83,409... 86,682. -3.8
...................................ES 350. 4,346..... 5,320 -18.3
.........................LS 460/600h L. 1,906..... 3,006 -36.6
...................................GS 350. 1,270..... 1,368.. -7.2
............................GS 460/450h... 210........ 183. 14.8
...............................IS 250/350 3,262..... 3,395. -3.9

........TOTAL LEXUS PASS. CAR.. 11,177... 13,574 -17.7
.....TOTAL TOYOTA PASS. CAR.. 94,586.. 100,256 -5.7
............TOTAL TOYOTA DIV... 151,550.. 153,732 -1.4
.............................TOTAL LEXUS. 20,299.... 22,118 -8.2
.....................TOTAL TOYOTA 171,849.. 175,850 -2.3

.....................................(SELLING DAYS 25 25)