Pontiac's Panache: Where did it go?

[JT87]

I was reading over an article about the 1987 Trans Am GTA (considering purchasing one of this year for various reasons), and read over this small statement at the end of the article:

That’s the greatest attribute about Pontiac these days. Their cars have a certain panache, and they seem to have recaptured the maverick image of performance that they enjoyed in the sixties. Although they are affected by the GM “cookie cutter” school of styling, their products, from the Grand Am to the STE to the GTA, are unique and stand apart from the rest of the GM divisions. That’s been the main reason they are enjoying considerable success at a time when overall GM sales are falling fast and the corporation is suffering badly. And that, folks, is fact, not fiction.

At that time, GM sales were not looking great (similar to today), but even cars so similar as the F Body twins were, there was still a reason to by one over the other outside of styling preferences. Looking back, there were cars like the Firefly Turbo, the Sunbird Turbo, the Fiero GT ('88 specifically), the Grand Am Turbo and Quad 4 HO, the Grand Prix McLaren/ASC Turbo and 3.4DOHC, Bonneville SSEI Supercharged, Trans Am GTA and TTA, and these cars were present in a span of 3-4 years, for the most part, without pure equivalents from Chevy, Buick, Saturn, Olds, etc...

Cars like the G8 and Solstice (if only the SKY was further differentiated, and maybe given to Buick) are a step in the right direction. The Grand Prix GXP had better components (such as tires, brakes, TapShift, etc) that gave reasons for buyers to get a GXP over an SS. The initial G6 GTP's were given 6 speed manuals with the 3.9 V6, a trim not found on other Epsilon cars. Then the manual was stripped, and the top trim gained the LY7 and 6 speed auto (eliminated now as all Epsilon cars share the GTP/GXP's the LY7/6A setup).

The coming Ute and GXP G8's, and the coupe Solstice are coming products with relatively no cross-brand equivalents. But then we have vehicles like the Vibe, the G5, the Wave (in Canada), the Torrent, the SV6 Montana, which strive for mediocrity, and for a faux-performance image that cannot presented.

Do Pontiacs all have to be RWD? Do they all have to have V8's? Do they all have to be class leaders in performance in every metric? Do they all have to look like sports cars?
No.

But there should be a reason why Pontiac should live on as the performance marque. Maybe its time for GM to give Pontiac back some of its panache.

[wescoent]

Originally Posted by JT87

I was reading over an article about the 1987 Trans Am GTA (considering purchasing one of this year for various reasons), and read over this small statement at the end of the article:

That’s the greatest attribute about Pontiac these days. Their cars have a certain panache, and they seem to have recaptured the maverick image of performance that they enjoyed in the sixties. Although they are affected by the GM “cookie cutter” school of styling, their products, from the Grand Am to the STE to the GTA, are unique and stand apart from the rest of the GM divisions. That’s been the main reason they are enjoying considerable success at a time when overall GM sales are falling fast and the corporation is suffering badly. And that, folks, is fact, not fiction.

At that time, GM sales were not looking great (similar to today), but even cars so similar as the F Body twins were, there was still a reason to by one over the other outside of styling preferences. Looking back, there were cars like the Firefly Turbo, the Sunbird Turbo, the Fiero GT ('88 specifically), the Grand Am Turbo and Quad 4 HO, the Grand Prix McLaren/ASC Turbo and 3.4DOHC, Bonneville SSEI Supercharged, Trans Am GTA and TTA, and these cars were present in a span of 3-4 years, for the most part, without pure equivalents from Chevy, Buick, Saturn, Olds, etc...

Cars like the G8 and Solstice (if only the SKY was further differentiated, and maybe given to Buick) are a step in the right direction. The Grand Prix GXP had better components (such as tires, brakes, TapShift, etc) that gave reasons for buyers to get a GXP over an SS. The initial G6 GTP's were given 6 speed manuals with the 3.9 V6, a trim not found on other Epsilon cars. Then the manual was stripped, and the top trim gained the LY7 and 6 speed auto (eliminated now as all Epsilon cars share the GTP/GXP's the LY7/6A setup).

The coming Ute and GXP G8's, and the coupe Solstice are coming products with relatively no cross-brand equivalents. But then we have vehicles like the Vibe, the G5, the Wave (in Canada), the Torrent, the SV6 Montana, which strive for mediocrity, and for a faux-performance image that cannot presented.

Do Pontiacs all have to be RWD? Do they all have to have V8's? Do they all have to be class leaders in performance in every metric? Do they all have to look like sports cars?
No.

But there should be a reason why Pontiac should live on as the performance marque. Maybe its time for GM to give Pontiac back some of its panache.

It doesn't matter whether Pontiacs share platforms and engines with other GM brands.

A Pontiac should provide three things to me when comparing it to its Chevrolet equivalent:

1) Truly better performance, and not just a rough ride. This means unique engine tune, a unique suspension tune, and a unique exhaust system. This isn't hard... give the engines a better intake, a tune for performance instead of fuel economy, and the better exhaust will all result in more power.

2) Unique style inside and out. I want to look at a Pontiac and see a performance car, and I want to sit in a Pontiac, and feel like I'm sitting in a performance car.

3) Value pricing. A Pontiac should cost between $2,000-$5,000 more than its Chevrolet sister, but give its owner the performance equipment to make the extra cost worth it.

To me, there should be three trim levels. An SE gets you the looks and the price. A GT gets you the looks, the engine, and the price. A GXP gets you even hotter looks and engine tune, and a higher price to match.

In the market, for a given price, a Pontiac should be the best performing car in its segment. A G6 at $25,000 should be the best performing midsized FWD V6 sedan, and this includes beating Chevy's SS. SS should be the midway point between Chevrolet and Pontiac.

Finally, Pontiac needs the marketing to back up their product.

Here's my ideal Pontiac lineup, along with the benchmark they should strive to beat:

Pontiac G5: Sedan, coupe, and 5-door hatch... outperform the Mitsubishi Lancer at all levels
Pontiac G6: Sedan, coupe, and convertible... outperform the Mazda 6
Pontiac G8: Sedan, ute... outperform the Dodge Charger
Pontiac Solstice: roadster, coupe... outperform the BMW Z4

I also firmly believe Pontiac should get a version of the Corvette to sell as a halo car for BPG.

[johnstarnes]

I think Pontiac lost its soul, its essence, when they killed the Firebird, then dropped hallowed names for goofy letters and numbers that evoke zero emotion.

[tholland]

It went to Holden.

[RamJet502]

The sad thing is that the GTO is a great muscle car, but the styling kills it. I tried to get my brother to get a new GTO last summer but he said it was to boring and got a damn Mustang instead.

[WWI Flying Ace]

Originally Posted by wescoent

I also firmly believe Pontiac should get a version of the Corvette to sell as a halo car for BPG.

That would be great! A new Firebird when the Chevy guys get the Camaro back too...I would love it!

[Joevette]

i personally think the GTO is one of the best looking cars out on the road today. People who think otherwise are just ignorant to what a great car it is. People cry and moan for that kind of car and when it comes out they look the other way.

[Tone]

I think GM has an opportunity with Pontiac to create a brand that takes direct aim at other affordable/sporty brands, including Mazda, Nissan and Subaru.

They do not need to go exclusively RWD to do this, though in this market it might be a competitive advantage.

What they do need to do is let GM's most enthusiastic engineers tune whatever platform they are using to be the most-fun-to-drive. That means the most lively steering and engine response, the most easily modulated brakes, great seats and ergonomics, etc.

Pontiacs should be at least optional with manual transmissions and have GM's best automatic programming (with a useful manual feature with match-revs downshifts).

There shouldn't be a "sports option" ... even the most basic Pontiac should be a fun-to-drive car, with the option of more power and features.

Success for Pontiac would be if reviews of the G6 stated that it is by far the most fun-to-drive car in its class, a wonderful alternative for enthusiasts turned off by the "maturing" of the Accord and the blandness of the Camry (and the more sedate, balanced approach of the Malibu). That's a stretch goal right now!

The only Pontiacs that currently fit that description are the G8 and the Solstice. Unless every car Pontiac can reach my suggested goal ... why even spend the development, marketing and advertising dollars on it?

[JerryL]

I think they've tried to build the Pontiac brand name with the "Pontiac Motorsports" backing of the Solstice and the GTO-R in Grand Am. They also have a G8 as a pacecar for the Rolex Series. Most enthusiasts view these series as "minor league" compared to the ALMS for example and they haven't achieved any notice compared to the success of the CorvetteRacing program and Chevy in Nascar.

[JT87]

Originally Posted by JerryL

I think they've tried to build the Pontiac brand name with the "Pontiac Motorsports" backing of the Solstice and the GTO-R in Grand Am. They also have a G8 as a pacecar for the Rolex Series. Most enthusiasts view these series as "minor league" compared to the ALMS for example and they haven't achieved any notice compared to the success of the CorvetteRacing program and Chevy in Nascar.

I like the idea of having Pontiac participate in these kind of series, but more widespread. It worked wonders for Mazda and their image as a sporty automaker. Their one overall Le Mans victory is more effectively advertised than all of GM's GT1/2 victories, or their ALMS class championships, Grand Am championships, NHRA championships, Speed championships, etc. Wouldn't it be nice to have the G8 GXP run in Speed GT, replacing the previous generation CTS-V? Or having a proper G6 GXP or G5 GXP run in the Touring class (and no, not just a tube chassis with an LS2, powering the rear wheels, as they do now)? Maybe they should run a spec series of Solstices?

A lot of enthusiasts my age don't even bother following series such as NASCAR or Formula 1 or IRL/CART. My friends and I bought tickets to go to the Toronto Indy last year just to see the Speed GT cars and the Ontario Touring cars. We go to Mosport and Cayuga and Calabogie to watch real people race real cars. And frankly, it's kind of disappointing to see the only competitive Pontiac cars are Firebirds and Solstices (GM only really has the Solstice, F-Body, Corvette, and Cobalt SS that do well).

Pontiac doesn't need a Corvette, or a Firebird. But they do need to offer something special, different, better. Let Chevy have the big-time racing series's as they are the volume brand and would most benefit from having the exposure and competition against other big brands. Pontiac can have their hand at beating Honda, Mazda, Nissan, BMW, and Mini where they have always excelled at.

[Uzzy]

Maybe they lost their panache with the side body cladding or not.

Originally Posted by wescoent

It doesn't matter whether Pontiacs share platforms and engines with other GM brands.

A Pontiac should provide three things to me when comparing it to its Chevrolet equivalent:

1) Truly better performance, and not just a rough ride. This means unique engine tune, a unique suspension tune, and a unique exhaust system. This isn't hard... give the engines a better intake, a tune for performance instead of fuel economy, and the better exhaust will all result in more power.

2) Unique style inside and out. I want to look at a Pontiac and see a performance car, and I want to sit in a Pontiac, and feel like I'm sitting in a performance car.

3) Value pricing. A Pontiac should cost between $2,000-$5,000 more than its Chevrolet sister, but give its owner the performance equipment to make the extra cost worth it.

To me, there should be three trim levels. An SE gets you the looks and the price. A GT gets you the looks, the engine, and the price. A GXP gets you even hotter looks and engine tune, and a higher price to match.

In the market, for a given price, a Pontiac should be the best performing car in its segment. A G6 at $25,000 should be the best performing midsized FWD V6 sedan, and this includes beating Chevy's SS. SS should be the midway point between Chevrolet and Pontiac.

Finally, Pontiac needs the marketing to back up their product.

Here's my ideal Pontiac lineup, along with the benchmark they should strive to beat:

Pontiac G5: Sedan, coupe, and 5-door hatch... outperform the Mitsubishi Lancer at all levels
Pontiac G6: Sedan, coupe, and convertible... outperform the Mazda 6
Pontiac G8: Sedan, ute... outperform the Dodge Charger
Pontiac Solstice: roadster, coupe... outperform the BMW Z4

I also firmly believe Pontiac should get a version of the Corvette to sell as a halo car for BPG.

I think you're right for the most part. The G8 should have a 2-door coupe on a shorter wheel base called GTO as well.

People complain that GM has too many divisions, and to an extent they are right, but only because they try to run every division like a full line brand and that can't work. Pontiac should be one their niche brands and be set-up like much you said. Chevrolet should really be the only full line brand with Saturn and Cadillac being nearly full lines. Sautrn should shy away from the larger cars/trucks (bye bye Outlook) and Cadillac should be only be in the premium cars/trucks market, which they are doing a good job of. Everyone else should be niche brands sticking to a certain market segment.

[Vette Ninja]

Originally Posted by Joevette

i personally think the GTO is one of the best looking cars out on the road today. People who think otherwise are just ignorant to what a great car it is. People cry and moan for that kind of car and when it comes out they look the other way.

I don't remember anyone crying and moaning for an bland, outdated, import from Australia for Pontiac.

[JT87]

Originally Posted by Vette Ninja

I don't remember anyone crying and moaning for an bland, outdated, import from Australia for Pontiac.

I'm not going to lie, I like the fact that it is a 400hp jelly bean. Sure, it could have been more aggressive, but it was a car at the end of its product cycle. and it performed very well, and was, by far, one of the best cars inside and out that GM sold between 04 and 06 (odd trunk aside). But it was a car that Chevy or Buick didn't have (or for that matter, nobody but Ford). Plus, it was a car that competed well at various levels of road racing and drag racing (missing since the demise of the F body).