Why I would never be a car salesman - Page 4

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Thread: Why I would never be a car salesman

  1. #46
    6.2 Liter LS3 V8 darndot's Avatar
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    Re: Why I would never be a car salesman

    I found the best thing to do is get you financing in order before you go in. I wanted to know what the price was if I wrote a check today. I contacted the Internet sales person at the dealer. When we sat down we were $500 apart. It didn't take long for both of to give an take. I felt good about the deal, and I hope he did too.
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  3. #47
    doh
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    Re: Why I would never be a car salesman

    Quote Originally Posted by unkillsam
    Not really. For example, my sister recently bought a used Malibu at a PBG store. She came in, test drove the car, and made the dealer an offer $900.00 below the advertised "sale" cost of the vehicle. We knew in advance that the dealer had gotten the car from auction, not a trade in, and had a margin on the car big enough to come down from the $500.00 "sale" discount.

    The salesman took 5 minutes to check with his manager, and came back immediatly and said that we could do business.

    1 hour later she drove off the lot with all paperwork signed.

    If you cannot accomplish that, then the dealer you are at is no good. It only takes about 15 minutes to go online and find all the information you need to negotiate a fair deal where you get a good price and the dealer makes a fair profit.
    Once value meets or exceeds price payed, the sale is done. It is the way I sell, and the way I buy. Yes I have paid extra for somethings like my Big Screen, but they delivered it and brought it down into my basement and took away the packing. Hense the value.

  4. #48
    6.2 Liter LS3 V8 jlmartin99's Avatar
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    Re: Why I would never be a car salesman

    Quote Originally Posted by HoosierRon
    I know there are a lot of car salesmen and women on this site. After my trip to a Honda dealer today for a warranty repair, I feel for you. I overheard the following discussion.

    A woman is sitting there with her young son. The salesman comes up. Based on the discussion, I learn that this woman got an offer from an Illinois Honda dealer, and she was shopping it around in Wisconsin. The salesman explains that he can match the Illinois price, but Honda forces all metro-Milwaukee dealers to pay $150 per vehicle for a marketing pool, and Honda does not require Illinois dealers to pay that. So he has to charge that fee on top of the Illinois price. Then the salesman says that he did a search for 2007 blue Civics in the Midwest, and there are only three: two at the dealership we are at and one in northern Wisconsin, so the Illinois dealer would have to call him to get a blue Civic. (The unstated implication is that he would not give a blue Civic to the Illinois dealership -- I take that back, I think he actually did say that.) Then they go back to the price and start talking about whether this was under invoice or over invoice...

    Now, keep in mind that I don't care about any of this. From my objective standpoint, I think he is telling the truth. Right about this time, the woman's husband shows up and the salesman excuses himself. The husband and wife then stare at the paper that the salesman gave them. For a really long time. In fact, until I left.

    I understand human nature. I have no doubt that the couple thought the Milwaukee dealer was trying to screw them. I am sure the salesman was not. But this sort of exchange is why people HATE shopping for a new car. If I had to go to three different McDonalds to negotiate the price of a Big Mac, I would be a skinny man. When was the last time you went into The Gap and asked them to show you the invoice for the pair of jeans you wanted to buy? It's ridicuous.

    Why on earth can't dealers just say: here is what we charge. Period. Why do customers have to get on the internet and research how much of a kickback the dealer is getting from the manufacturer? Why will the same dealer sell me a car for x, but if I trade in my old car, it sells me the new car for y? Why does it take HOURS for a customer find out what the dealer is going to charge? Why does the salesman have to keep "checking with my manager"?

    I left before the couple made a decision. But I am sure that if they could have driven into this dealership, and seen a "final price" sticker on a 2007 blue Civic sitting in the parking lot, they would have bought the car and felt good about it. And the dealer would not have had to pay a salesman to "work the sale".

    Like I said, I feel for you guys.
    HoosierRon,

    The car purchase process can be unpleasant for many. However there are options for car buyers today. If one would rather negotiate the price themselves, the internet is a wonderful resource. The other option is to use a auto broker service. There is one internal to GM, GMBuy Power and I used this service to purchase my Cadillac XLR and it worked beautifully. The Cadillac dealers with a Cadillac XLR in stock with color combination I selected responding with their lowest price. The other broker option is Costco. My wife had an excellent idea in that for those looking to purchase a new car can simply purchase a Costco membership for $35.00, I believe that is the base fee. With the Costco membership you can use the Costco auto broker service. When I purchased my Cadillac STS V8 I did not use an auto broker, I used the internet and which work well for me in a fair market value price for the STS V8 and fair market trade in prices.

    I prefer using the auto broker service unless I want to have a relationship with a specific dealership and sales management.

    JLM

  5. #49
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    Re: Why I would never be a car salesman

    The chevy salesman I use- was wonderful. When I initially looked for my Trailblazer- several wanted alot or did the let me talk to the manager or raised price etc.
    I stopped looking for a while. and instead waited for the 03's to arrive.
    I emailed this one guy.
    He basically replied to my email.....said- this is what you want- this is what I have and heres your out the door price including tax and license. I was surprissed by numbers.
    I talked to him in person- and he said there was no BS with him. He would be very hard to beat.
    He was correct.
    I bought from him- sale was straightforward. He merely reconfirmed that I wanted certain options- and asked if I wanted any more or less.....
    Sale was done. no pressure, no extra sales pitches. no additive here or there.
    Since then my sister, girlfriend, friend, coworker 1 and coworker2 have gone to him for straightforward sales with no pressure.
    All of us agreed- it was an enjoyable purchase with no pressure of any type with no haggleing on either of our parts. The price has always been the lowest- as before my friends went to him- they already been given pricing at other locales- and I said- here- call him. tell him I sent you.
    they werent dissapointed.
    At this point Id have no problem calling, getting price, paying, and not wonder if I got ripped off.......

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    Administrator Premium Member Rex Raider's Avatar
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    Re: Why I would never be a car salesman

    I have one question for all of you "Buyers" out there. After all kickbacks, incentives, etc... all that stuff taken out of the equation, what is a fair profit for a dealership to make on a vehicle?

    Should the profit on a $12000 Aveo be the same profit on a $80000 Cadillac?

  7. #51
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    Re: Why I would never be a car salesman

    This is why I buy used.

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    Re: Why I would never be a car salesman

    Quote Originally Posted by bouda
    This is why I buy used.
    Exactly, no one has ever been ripped off on a used car deal.
    The fastest way to kill a thread is a direct injection of verifiable facts.

  9. #53
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    Re: Why I would never be a car salesman

    Quote Originally Posted by Rex Raider
    I have one question for all of you "Buyers" out there. After all kickbacks, incentives, etc... all that stuff taken out of the equation, what is a fair profit for a dealership to make on a vehicle?

    Should the profit on a $12000 Aveo be the same profit on a $80000 Cadillac?
    that depends... does the dealer work harder for the Cadillac buyer?

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    Re: Why I would never be a car salesman

    Quote Originally Posted by Rex Raider
    I have one question for all of you "Buyers" out there. After all kickbacks, incentives, etc... all that stuff taken out of the equation, what is a fair profit for a dealership to make on a vehicle?

    Should the profit on a $12000 Aveo be the same profit on a $80000 Cadillac?
    8%. Less for more expensive cars. And there is no reason the dealer should be ashamed to put that figure on the window:

    Invoice
    - kickbacks
    - incentives
    + dealer profit
    = your price, take it or leave it

    I would think front line salesmen would love this. It would give them and the customer mutual dignity and respect.

  11. #55
    6.2 Liter LS9 Supercharged V8 Michael_S's Avatar
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    Re: Why I would never be a car salesman

    Quote Originally Posted by Rex Raider
    I have one question for all of you "Buyers" out there. After all kickbacks, incentives, etc... all that stuff taken out of the equation, what is a fair profit for a dealership to make on a vehicle?

    Should the profit on a $12000 Aveo be the same profit on a $80000 Cadillac?
    I respect that the dealer and salesman should make some money on the sale.

    The part that's tough to accept, in my experience, is trade-in value. The last two times we purchased cars, our trades were listed at Kelly Blue Book value $3,000 and $4,500, respectively. On the first purchase, none of the dealerships would offer us more than $1,000 on the trade. On the second, none would offer more than $1,500.

    Now if they discount $1,000 off the MSRP but then sell the trade-in for KBB, they've effectively gotten us to pay $1,000 above MSRP on the purchase. I don't sell used cars, I don't know if KBB values are accurate. But I have no hard evidence that they are inaccurate, so I am inclined not to trust the dealers and salesman.

  12. #56
    Administrator Premium Member Rex Raider's Avatar
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    Re: Why I would never be a car salesman

    When we evaluate a used car, we almost never use "black book" price.
    Black book is the guide used in Canada. Black book pricing is available pretty much everywhere (including GM Canada's website). So it has lost some of the "secrecy" of the industry. Most vehicle are appraised lower than black book.

    For any vehicle that we would keep for resale (instead of wholesaling or crushing), we look at the car, and see what similar cars are selling for (either on our lot, or using online websites like autotrader.ca).

    We would then make an offer of approximately $3000-$4000 below the marketplace value.
    Why such a big discrepancy? Well, on average, we spend $1500 reconditioning each vehicle (proper clean up, tune-up to meet Toyota "certified" standards, touch up paint, dings, dents, tires & brakes must have at least 50% life remaining, etc...)
    This leave between $1500 and $2500 profit and negotiating. Sometimes we make the $2500. Sometimes we make $800. We will rarely sell for less than an $800 profit on a used car.

    On a car that we aren't keeping (wholesale), we have 3 different wholesalers we deal with, that ultimately end up selling the car at auction. We will call them, describe the vehicle, and whoever gives us the highest price, gets it. We deduct $250 from that amount (as profit), and the balance is what the consumer gets.

    Cars that will be destroyed will get $0 or $50 or sometimes $100, depending on what they negotiated on the vehicle. Anyone that balks at that amount, we tell them to keep the trade.

    For example, someone brought in a 2000 Grand Am SE yesterday with 297000 kms. He says it still ran great. We probably would have paid him $400 for it. But when we went to the front of the vehicle, it was accidented, and the headlight and front bumper were destroyed. Probably $1500 in damage. On top of that, the damage (no headlight) would cause the vehicle not to be street legal unless fixed. So that customer got $0.

  13. #57
    6.2 Liter LS9 Supercharged V8 lio45's Avatar
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    Re: Why I would never be a car salesman

    Quote Originally Posted by Rex Raider
    For example, someone brought in a 2000 Grand Am SE yesterday with 297000 kms. He says it still ran great. We probably would have paid him $400 for it. But when we went to the front of the vehicle, it was accidented, and the headlight and front bumper were destroyed. Probably $1500 in damage. On top of that, the damage (no headlight) would cause the vehicle not to be street legal unless fixed. So that customer got $0.
    $400 for a 2000 Grand Am SE with < 200k miles?

    $0 for a 2000 Grand Am SE with < 200k miles and some minor front end damage?

    Did that customer tell you to go to hell, and leave? (presumably to put his Grand Am for sale privately and then buy a new car... somewhere else)

    I sure hope so... otherwise, poor guy got screwed.

  14. #58
    Administrator Premium Member Rex Raider's Avatar
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    Re: Why I would never be a car salesman

    Quote Originally Posted by lio45
    $400 for a 2000 Grand Am SE with < 200k miles?

    $0 for a 2000 Grand Am SE with < 200k miles and some minor front end damage?

    Did that customer tell you to go to hell, and leave? (presumably to put his Grand Am for sale privately and then buy a new car... somewhere else)

    I sure hope so... otherwise, poor guy got screwed.
    How much do you want to pay for it? I'll give him your number.

    No, the guy still bought the car he came in for, and totally understood why we offered him what we did. He didn't trade in his car. We told him it's worth more if he sells it privately, that it is useless to us.

    As I stated, that vehicle will not pass Ontario safety laws, and is not road worthy unless fixed. The damage to the front was significant, and would cost more to fix than the car is worth.

    People that come in trading their car and expect to get "retail" pricing, obviously don't know how the system works.

    Canadian Black book on a 2000 Grand Am (4 cylinder, no power windows) with 175000 kms is Low: $352.00 High: $2,002.00
    (less reconditioning costs).

    There is no listing ($0) for 295000kms.

  15. #59
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    Re: Why I would never be a car salesman

    What happens to most cars when they are traded in anyway, are they resold, scrapped, sold for parts etc?

  16. #60
    Administrator Premium Member Rex Raider's Avatar
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    Re: Why I would never be a car salesman

    All depends on the condition of the car. Most are ultimately resold. Either to people looking for a used car, or to wholesalers that will sell them to used car lots, or they go to auction, where different dealers and used car lots can bid on them for resale.
    Certain older, or busted, etc... vehicle go to a scrap yard, where any usable parts may be salvaged, or it becomes a cube.

    Our dealership generally won't keep any vehicle before 2001, or with more than 140,000kms.

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