Why I Hate GM... Why Cadillac is Lost... The Solution Instead of Complaints - Page 13

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Thread: Why I Hate GM... Why Cadillac is Lost... The Solution Instead of Complaints

  1. #181
    3.6 Liter SIDI V6 ptviperz's Avatar
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    Re: Why I Hate GM... Why Cadillac is Lost... The Solution Instead of Complaints

    Quote Originally Posted by CmicasatheGreat View Post
    Of course u would... they're "mostly" Japanese. I'm willing to bet U thru the Fusion in there as a "Token" or because of it's relation to the Mazda...
    You don't get it and I'm sure you never will.....I don't care where a car was made. If it's a good car, it's a good car. I'd be happy in a A6, a 335, G37, etc. it's not my fault that there are no American cars that fit the bill.

    I think the Fusion is a sharp looking sedan, IMO, -much- more attractive than either the Aura or Malibu. The new Mazda6 is the best looking sedan and I like the looks and power of the Altima but the interior could be better. At least it comes with a manual Accord is a solid value all the way around. I don't like the Camry. Period. Uglier than sin.

    On topic, Cadillac should be exclusive and should be the -best- They shouldn't aspire to be MB or BMW, they should aim ABOVE those marks. Aston Martin, Rolls, Bentley. That level of class and sophistication.
    Last edited by ptviperz; 02-06-2009 at 11:37 PM.


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  3. #182
    Banned CmicasatheGreat's Avatar
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    Re: Why I Hate GM... Why Cadillac is Lost... The Solution Instead of Complaints

    Quote Originally Posted by LAChevy24 View Post
    well then i apologize. but i am a GM fan. i would love to have just about any current GM car. hell some of my dream cars are cars my friends never heard of, '68 GTO, '87 Buick GNX, '92 Typhoon and '95 Impala SS. and those are the oddballs. its just GM needs to continue to turn things around. the malibu is great, the CTS is finally a true competitor, all the trucks are great. but there is still plenty of room for improvement.

    Then we're cool...

    and there's alwys room for improvement.. in anything.. Except for the Europeans.. they are perfect according to some.


    Quote Originally Posted by mgescuro View Post

    What we are trying to tell you is that Cadillac's "solution" for its product woes is insufficient to be respected in the US market AND the global market.

    What we are also saying is that your "plan" for Cadillac is also highly compromised and therefore insufficient to be respected in the US market AND the global market.
    NO.. What U are trying to say is that your "Vision" is better... and I AGREE... I would love it.. But what I am doing is kicking out a REALISTIC and IMMEDIATE fix to the intial problems using a hypothetical albeit possible, budget that would still allow Cadillac to be on par with BENZ. Your original "Vision" was grand and at MTFORUM and AWCC I used to parade it.. but it is simply NOT DOABLE.. Not by GM, NOT BY TOYOTA, NOT BY BENZ, and not by even Bentley in these times. I guarantee if the economy lingers like this for another 6 months... and CAFE/Emissions goes even further into the hands of Liberals... even Benz will start down-sizing their lines

    Well, you have an STS. You think Cadillac doesn't do enough. Apparently, you've settled for something less than #1. In fact, you've settled for #4.
    Well, you have an old C-Class. You think Benz does everything RIGHT. Apparently, U don't realize that U settled for a car that even when I was worth only 5% of what I'm worth now... I knu that it was low rent.. and not worthy of my dime... yet U still parade it around like it's the cat's meow...Stop with this ELITIST BULL***... I kno "money" and U ain't it

    and what I BOUGHT was a car that was more reliable than the E-Class, better looking than the GS and LS, performed as well as the M45, wasn't as common as a 5series... and was a CADILLAC to boot... walked in with a personal check and walked out with the key Fob



    For what it's worth... I should have bought the STS-V.. but it wasn't out yet
    Last edited by CmicasatheGreat; 02-07-2009 at 12:11 AM.
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  4. #183
    R2-D2 Astromech Droid mgescuro's Avatar
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    Re: Why I Hate GM... Why Cadillac is Lost... The Solution Instead of Complaints

    Quote Originally Posted by CmicasatheGreat View Post
    NO.. What U are trying to say is that your "Vision" is better... and I AGREE... I would love it..
    Then you admit my vision is better.

    Quote Originally Posted by CmicasatheGreat View Post
    But what I am doing is kicking out a REALISTIC and IMMEDIATE fix to the intial problems using a hypothetical albeit possible, budget that would still allow Cadillac to be on par with BENZ.
    Yes because an Epsilon that will have 5-6 other sister cars is that much BETTER.
    What you offer is yet another compromised vision of Cadillac.
    "Let's reduce the lineup" and everything will be OK.

    Quote Originally Posted by CmicasatheGreat View Post
    Your original "Vision" was grand and at MTFORUM and AWCC I used to parade it.. but it is simply NOT DOABLE.. Not by GM, NOT BY TOYOTA, NOT BY BENZ, and not by even Bentley in these times. I guarantee if the economy lingers like this for another 6 months... and CAFE/Emissions goes even further into the hands of Liberals... even Benz will start down-sizing their lines
    What you expect the lineup to evolve in 1 year? It would span a decade or more to get that kind of lineup.
    But with Cadillac's product reversal.... it'll never get there.
    Like I said, Cadillac was WELL ON THE WAY!!

    What should ahve been done? At the MCE, CTS should have shrunk by 4 inches and evolved into a family on Alpha. STS should have evolved to SLS but 2" wider... and offer SWB and LWB versions.... and evolved a coupe. Cadillac should have solved the side impact issue for sale in the US. XLR should have been upgraded. DTS should have been killed in favor of a premium Zeta in 2 wheelbase lengths. DTS would have evolved into an A8 competitor. SRX should have remained where it was on a performance architecture.

    And there you have the core: Compact family, Mid-sized family, Full-sized family, Roadster, Mid-sized CUV.

    From there you evolve into niche markets.
    Escalade would evolve into a full-sized performance architecture. Zeta CUV or something.
    A BLS could have evolved off Alpha for a performance coupe or sedan in teh 1-series range.
    Alpha could have evolved into a compact performance CUV -- X3 sized. And evolved into a compact roadster.

    And now you have a full lineup.
    And 10-15 years later.... once you build up the reputation.... The Sixteen appears in Sedan and Coupe..... Bye bye Flying Spur and ConGT watch out.

    It is the ONLY way for Cadillac to gain any respect.

    Quote Originally Posted by CmicasatheGreat View Post
    Well, you have an old C-Class. You think Benz does everything RIGHT.
    I keep the 13 year old Benz because my deceased aunt willed it to me. And I haven't had the heart to get rid of it.

    Quote Originally Posted by CmicasatheGreat View Post
    Stop with this ELITIST BULL***... I kno "money" and U ain't it
    You know money? But you aren't cultured or sophisticated enough to know what to do with it.
    Just because a number of us here have managed to see through your thin veneer doesn't give you the right to act like a prick.

    A number of us don't agree with your "solution." And we've posited detailed reasons as to why Cadillac is failing -- the fundamental reasons why Americans can't do luxury. And you continue to go off into your tirades.

    As someone else has stated, "You're mistaking premium for luxury." Cadillac might have a luxury brand, but Cadillac's products aren't luxury. That's what needs to be fixed. And there is a dwindling number of customers out there willing to give Cadillac a chance.
    Last edited by nsap; 03-04-2009 at 03:41 PM.

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    Re: Why I Hate GM... Why Cadillac is Lost... The Solution Instead of Complaints

    Yikes!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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    6.2 Liter LS9 Supercharged V8 lio45's Avatar
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    Re: Why I Hate GM... Why Cadillac is Lost... The Solution Instead of Complaints

    Quote Originally Posted by mgescuro View Post
    I keep the 13 year old Benz because my deceased aunt willed it to me. And I haven't had the heart to get rid of it.
    You just drew my attention to your vehicle list. I didn't realize you owned such a prehistoric Jag... even your newest car is 9 years old! That just doesn't match the image I have of you. Those old worthless vehicles... your friends must look down on you...

    I'm sure the state of CA would give you money to crush that antiquated XJ. Please think about it and make the right decision. Do your duty and make beautiful San Francisco greener!!!

    Also, I would agree with your posts in the thread.
    Last edited by ChevyRules; 02-07-2009 at 04:10 PM.
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    R2-D2 Astromech Droid mgescuro's Avatar
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    Re: Why I Hate GM... Why Cadillac is Lost... The Solution Instead of Complaints

    Quote Originally Posted by lio45 View Post
    You just drew my attention to your vehicle list. I didn't realize you owned such a prehistoric Jag... even your newest car is 9 years old! That just doesn't match the image I have of you. Those old worthless vehicles... your friends must look down on you...

    I'm sure the state of CA would give you money to crush that antiquated XJ. Please think about it and make the right decision. Do your duty and make beautiful San Francisco greener!!!

    Also, I would agree with your posts in the thread.
    I have not need to continually update my cars on a regular basis. Cars are a complete waste of money. There are other things I divert my money to... like real estate and other investments. It's smarter.

    So I keep them for long periods of time. My latest car was a 2005 G6, which I gave away about a year later.

    I keep the Jag because I like it. My dad was going to sell it. I had room in my garage for a 3rd car, so I got it. The car is in mint condition.

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    Re: Why I Hate GM... Why Cadillac is Lost... The Solution Instead of Complaints

    Quote Originally Posted by mgescuro View Post
    Personally, I believe that the definition of "American luxury," traditional or otherwise, has been superseded by the European standard -- or what is classified as European.

    The European luxury standard really started gaining a foothold in the 1960's and 1970's. Mercedes came in with overbuilt cars. Vault solid. Smaller than the American standard at the time. Just as plush in a more spartan way. A more refined drive, contrasting the land yachts of the day. And it started changing perceptions of what luxury could be and was outside of the US.

    Can America "craft" a competitive luxury sedan or coupe? I don't believe so.
    I believe America has forgotten what the definition of "American Luxury" is. Americans see and believe the luxury standard is European.

    In order for America to build a "luxury car," they need to figure out what makes an American luxury car... an American luxury car. Yet they need to find a way that makes it competitive with the European standard. We can build to the European standard. Check the CTS. But it doesn't say "This is American luxury." What it says is, "This is an American BMW wannabe.... for less money."

    Ford had world class luxury already in its lineup. They sold all 3 of those brands, retaining a percent stake in Aston. They are now tasked with getting Lincoln up to speed. I've driven their lineup. They're not there yet.

    I just don't think Americans have the ability to do what is necessary to build a truly competitive luxury car. Americans have experienced what the world considers luxury. THe American definition just pales.

    Cadillac and Lincoln need to regain the respect of the American luxury consumer. And it's not just the 40-50 year old wealthy consumers either. It's the young, hot, up-and-comers. We're the ones buying fistfuls of BMWs and Audis and Infinitis. And in 10-15 years? We'll be the ones buying E and S, 5 and 7, A6 and A8.

    Where does that leave Cadillac and Lincoln? Up **** creek without a paddle. Heck... without a canoe!

    I can sit here and nitpick Cadillac to death because I experience the Europeans day in and day out. Why do I nitpick stupid things like a Cadillac keyfob? Why it isn't metallic or stylish? Because have you seen the Audi fobs? Or why Cadillac seemingly couldn't put a push button start in their cars and proceeded to spin the worst PR about how it wasn't needed? Sorry. That's BS. Look at the competition.

    The moment Cadillac realizes that these deleted features are nothing more than cut corners that make their product deficient in the eyes of luxury car buyers, then Cadillac will start getting back on the right path.
    It is an attention to detail that Americans simply don't have. Cadillac can't cover the deficiencies with horsepower either. Customer at this level will see through it.

    Now... a possible solution is to allow GM Shanghai to develop and design Cadillacs. The obviously have a sense and feel for world class luxury, seeing what they did to SLS. Look what they did with Lacrosse too. Stunning work on Lacrosse.

    GM needs to make some tough choices here. Cadillac cannot survive making "demi-luxe" cars.

    Cadillac has to be All in... or they have to fold. For 8 years, they have been bluffing. Mercedes, BMW, Audi, Lexus, and Jaguar have called the bluff.

    The XF and XFR are no joke. Love or hate the styling... that car is built to compete with the best of the best. The cut corners are not obvious. It's distinctly British while still being world class. You're not going to mistake it for a German rehash.

    Long story short.... I don't believe America is capable of building an S-Class competitor. The knowledge base just isn't there. And there is no real definition of "American luxury" to build off of. And Cadillac has diverged quite a bit from its heritage, so it will be difficult to build off that now. It'll be a very steep uphill battle.
    First off, this import troll goes around saying Cadillac in general sucks, then says that the only thing lacking is an S-Class competitor? My God, when will this import troll get banned?!
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  9. #188
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    Re: Why I Hate GM... Why Cadillac is Lost... The Solution Instead of Complaints

    I'm preparing to suggest that only those in a certain income bracket even be allowed in the Cadillac discussion.

    No wait. That won't work. There'll always be the white trashy Jersey guido with money in the bank who thinks he's high class.

    Some of you need to simply exit the thread, jump in your Escalade, and go enjoy some Jaegerbombs with your spikey-haired Gotti-kid compadres.
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  10. #189
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    Re: Why I Hate GM... Why Cadillac is Lost... The Solution Instead of Complaints

    Quote Originally Posted by mgescuro View Post
    I have not need to continually update my cars on a regular basis. Cars are a complete waste of money.
    You don't need to tell me this. My current dailydriver is a '95 Neon, with no plans to get rid of it, even though I could afford 100x more car right now if I wanted.

    You don't strike me as the type who would be like me, though. I'm cheap... whereas you have expensive taste. Usually cars are no exception. You're an oddity.

    There are other things I divert my money to... like real estate and other investments. It's smarter.
    Since you bring the topic... Have you invested in San Francisco yet? I've been looking at that market for years, and the most interesting things I've found so far have all been quite poor... for example, that O'Farrell St. condo with ~5% ROI that I showed you a while ago. The only way to make $ in the current SF market is to expect that there will always be a sucker in the future willing to pay quite a bit more than you did, which isn't really a sound investment strategy. We can take that to PM again if you think it's too off-topic, although it would not be your first or last SF-related thread-jacking.....
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    6.2 Liter LS9 Supercharged V8 lio45's Avatar
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    Re: Why I Hate GM... Why Cadillac is Lost... The Solution Instead of Complaints

    Quote Originally Posted by t-rex View Post
    I'm preparing to suggest that only those in a certain income bracket even be allowed in the Cadillac discussion.

    No wait. That won't work. There'll always be the white trashy Jersey guido with money in the bank who thinks he's high class.

    Some of you need to simply exit the thread, jump in your Escalade, and go enjoy some Jaegerbombs with your spikey-haired Gotti-kid compadres.
    That was actually a decent strategy for Cadillac...... until the credit crunch and current crisis eliminated that "interesting" market segment.

    Nowadays, it's pretty much only the real rich who are still comfortable buying depreciating stuff with high price tags... and those people have different tastes, as GM might find out.

    But ~10 years ago, back when plenty of people who shouldn't really have been buying a vehicle in that price class could still do it reasonably easily, the luxury market was different. There was a business case for crass luxury aimed at that kind of clientele (which did outnumber the "real" rich). Can't blame Caddy for tapping into that.
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    Re: Why I Hate GM... Why Cadillac is Lost... The Solution Instead of Complaints

    Quote Originally Posted by Glenns View Post
    First off, this import troll goes around saying Cadillac in general sucks, then says that the only thing lacking is an S-Class competitor? My God, when will this import troll get banned?!
    He's only so angry because he cares. If he didn't care so much he'd be like, "bah, let them die". He's not a troll. He truly feels passion for Cadillac and other cars, he wants the car companies to show that same passion.
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    Re: Why I Hate GM... Why Cadillac is Lost... The Solution Instead of Complaints

    Quote Originally Posted by mgescuro View Post

    You are an ass!! I keep the 13 year old Benz because my deceased aunt willed it to me. And I haven't had the heart to get rid of it.
    Happy now? Asshat!!


    LOL...

    WOW.. that's all I SAW.. were your insults. Me thinks U are taking this car talk waaaay to far

    SO Slow down WILD BILL " I Put the Effin Lotion In the Basket...."

    In the mean time.. stop falling in love with me... I supported Prop #22 back in the day.. and LOVE girls



    Last edited by CmicasatheGreat; 02-07-2009 at 04:01 PM.
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