Top Ten Fuel Efficient Cars of the last 26 years.

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Thread: Top Ten Fuel Efficient Cars of the last 26 years.

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    Top Ten Fuel Efficient Cars of the last 26 years.

    Here are the top ten fuel efficient cars of the last 26 years...and there isn't an American made to be found. Sure...there are a few junky cars with American brands on them...but they weren't designed or built in the US. Why is it that after all these years an American car company can't design and manufacture a car that leads in the fuel economy race...or even breaks the top ten.

    http://money.cnn.com/galleries/2010/...984/index.html

    Really sad. Even now with the Cruze about to debut...GM has held back technology (namely DI) that could push the mileage a bit higher. Granted the return on investment would be low...but it would show the world what we are capable of doing. Instead management has made the cheap choice and left it off. They might add it as a response to stiff competition from Asia...but it will be viewed as a reaction...instead of leadership.

    GM - wake up!!! Lets lead again!
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    Re: Top Ten Fuel Efficient Cars of the last 26 years.

    Quote Originally Posted by boblutzfan View Post
    Why is it that after all these years an American car company can't design and manufacture a car that leads in the fuel economy race...or even breaks the top ten.
    Because it requires a good bit of engineering and is not very profitable.

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    Re: Top Ten Fuel Efficient Cars of the last 26 years.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Burns View Post
    Because it requires a good bit of engineering and is not very profitable.
    Your statement is damning. Either 1) we don't have the engineering know how, 2) we don't know how to make a profit at it or 3) management doesn't know how to tackle this segment. I would like to think it is 2) and 3). The Volt proves we have engineering know how just as Toyota and Honda have proven you can make money at it.
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    Re: Top Ten Fuel Efficient Cars of the last 26 years.

    For most of the last 26 years there was little money to be made in small efficient cars. Obviously the events of the last 8 years has caught up with the D3, but still.
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    Re: Top Ten Fuel Efficient Cars of the last 26 years.

    Quote Originally Posted by boblutzfan View Post
    Your statement is damning. Either 1) we don't have the engineering know how, 2) we don't know how to make a profit at it or 3) management doesn't know how to tackle this segment. I would like to think it is 2) and 3). The Volt proves we have engineering know how just as Toyota and Honda have proven you can make money at it.
    The answer was 2 because of the UAW and GM's cost structure and lack of capital. After bankruptcy I am not sure.

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    Re: Top Ten Fuel Efficient Cars of the last 26 years.

    Quote Originally Posted by boblutzfan View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Burns View Post
    Because it requires a good bit of engineering and is not very profitable.
    Your statement is damning. Either 1) we don't have the engineering know how, 2) we don't know how to make a profit at it or 3) management doesn't know how to tackle this segment. I would like to think it is 2) and 3). The Volt proves we have engineering know how just as Toyota and Honda have proven you can make money at it.
    I would propose 4) management has NO IDEA how to manage resources/assets for profitability!

    At least this appears to be the case for Ford and GM to date. "Old" Chrysler seems to have ignored fuel frugal technologies ... even in Europe, a technology gap that Fiat has the ability to fill.

    Both Ford and GM already have reasonably mature EXISTING 40 to 55 mpg(US) combined gasoline and 50 to 65 mpg(US) combined diesel powertrains produced and sold in NON-US portions of their markets.

    The development for these fuel frugal technology is relatively complete and has been being ammortized for at least 5~8 years over volumes in the 10s of millions. I will leave it to you to determine Ford and GM's shares of the roughly 5 million fuel frugal gasoline and 5 million fuel frugal diesels sold in the EU in 2009.

    The only issue that I see is resolving the disparity in HC+NOx emissions with US regulations when these emissions are already LESS THAN 230 mg/km for these most fuel frugal diesel options. This does not apply to the fuel frugal gasoline options which could allow use ... NOW!

    Do you REALLY think abatement (to US standards) of 230 mg/km HC+NOx will add $6k to $9k to the cost of these EXISTING vehicle?

    Further, there is ABSOLUTELY NOTHING that prevents these existing FUEL FRUGAL types of powertrains from being built in the US ... other than corporate MANAGEMENT (the Det3).

    I do agree that to develop and start production of unique (relative low volumes compared to total world volumes) fuel frugal powertrains based on the US domestic powertrain gene pool ... can reasonably be expected to ADD $6k to $9k increase in the cost of the vehicle.

    BTW, there is nothing preventing the USE of these fuel frugal powertrains in MIDSIZED vehicles where appropriate.
    Last edited by 44 mpg by 2010; 06-10-2010 at 03:14 PM.
    It is important what WE use as our "moral compass" and ...
    the "measuring stick" chosen for judging progress/success as well.


    44 mpg by 2010 ... 2013?

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    Re: Top Ten Fuel Efficient Cars of the last 26 years.

    To bad no mention of GM's EV1 ... while it didn't use 'fuel' exactly, there are mpg equivilents for electric vehicles. For example, an MIT team estimates that the EV1 got an equivilant of 188 mpg (battery to wheel); see http://web.mit.edu/evt/summary_mpgge.pdf

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    Re: Top Ten Fuel Efficient Cars of the last 26 years.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tone View Post
    To bad no mention of GM's EV1 ... while it didn't use 'fuel' exactly, there are mpg equivilents for electric vehicles. For example, an MIT team estimates that the EV1 got an equivilant of 188 mpg (battery to wheel); see http://web.mit.edu/evt/summary_mpgge.pdf
    Sounds good battery to wheel!

    How does it look from POWER PLUG to wheel?

    And ... POWER PLANT FUEL (assume petroleum, natural gas or coal) to wheel?

    Just curious ...

    The paper had the answer!

    Table 1: Fuel economy values in miles per gallon gasoline equivalent for several production electric vehicles along with the MIT Porsche 914 BEV.


    Full cycle equivalent fuel economy (mpgge)
    GM EV1 69
    Tesla Roadster 51
    MIT Porsche 67
    Toyota RAV4 52
    Ford Ranger EV 39

    Keep in mind that the electrical energy equivalent of a gallon of gasoline is almost 34 kWh. So now you can calculate the energy costs per 100 miles for some EVs. For example at $0.10/kWh the GM EV1 energy cost would be $4.93/100 miles.

    For fun ....

    2010-1/2 Opel Astra 1.3CDTi 16v 95PS M5 Diesel at 98 g/km CO2; 208 mg/km HC+NOx; providing 63/76 mpg(US) combined/highway?
    http://www.vcacarfueldata.org.uk/sea...s.asp?id=24677

    Best guess ... the 300 pound heavier US Cruze with the Astra 1.3CDTi 16v 95PS M5 Diesel power train would probably provide about 60/72 mpg(US) combined/highway?

    And then there are the 60 plus mpg(US) combined/highway Ford and Volvo diesels.

    Let's compare the EV1 fuel costs to that of a 60 mpg diesel at $4/gallon ... $6.66/100 miles, $1.73/100 miles higher than the EV1. So, the EV1 could save about $260/15k miles (per year) @ $4/gallon diesel ... but requires plug/charge/unplug plus staying within operating range. With diesel at $3/gallon the EV1 cost advantage drops to $10.50/15k miles ... at least until "they" figure out how to put "road tax" on electricity, say $0.50/gallon equivalent.

    It will be interesting to see where the Volt fits into this ....

    EDIT
    Last edited by 44 mpg by 2010; 06-12-2010 at 11:40 AM.
    It is important what WE use as our "moral compass" and ...
    the "measuring stick" chosen for judging progress/success as well.


    44 mpg by 2010 ... 2013?

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    Re: Top Ten Fuel Efficient Cars of the last 26 years.

    At what point did the standard Civic's FE start to plummet? How did reviewers respond in the late 90s when the norm for a compact went from 50mpg to 30mpg?

    God Bless the Blue Bullet.

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    Re: Top Ten Fuel Efficient Cars of the last 26 years.

    Quote Originally Posted by AdmiralViscen View Post
    At what point did the standard Civic's FE start to plummet? How did reviewers respond in the late 90s when the norm for a compact went from 50mpg to 30mpg?
    Look at fueleconomy.gov's "Drivers LIKE You".

    It has to do with the "2008 adjustment models" and probably how a specific group of drivers operate their vehicles.

    I have not looked ... but it would not surprise me if muscle car drivers, as a group, had lower "Drivers LIKE You" results than fueleconomy.gov's combined estimate.

    EDIT: Ooops ... I may have misunderstood your point. Reread ... suggests a general complaint about actual DETERIORATION of fuel economy of compacts from the 90's to the 2000 and later products. Sorry about that ....
    Last edited by 44 mpg by 2010; 06-12-2010 at 11:06 AM.
    It is important what WE use as our "moral compass" and ...
    the "measuring stick" chosen for judging progress/success as well.


    44 mpg by 2010 ... 2013?

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