Something to remember.............

[wolverine]

WHERE WERE HONDA AND TOYOTA WHEN WE NEEDED THEM?

An interesting commentary. You might find this of interest: CNN Headline News did a short news listing regarding Ford, GM's and Chrysler's contributions to the relief and recovery efforts in New York and Washington after the September 11, 2001 terror attacks. The findings are as follows.....

1. Ford - $1 million to American Red Cross matching employee contributions of the same number plus 10 Ford Excursions to NY Fire Dept. The company also offered ER response team services and office space to displaced government employees.

2. GM - $1 million to American Red Cross matching employee contributions of the same number and a fleet of vans, suv's, and trucks.

3. DaimlerChrysler - $10 million to support of the children and victims of the September 11th attack.

4. Harley Davidson motorcycles - $1 million and 30 new motorcycles to the New York Police Dept.

5. Volkswagen -Employees and management created a September 11th Foundation, funded initially with $2 million, for the assistance of the children and victims of the WTC.

6. Hyundai - $300,000 to the American Red Cross.

7. Audi - Nothing.

8. BMW - Nothing.

9. Daewoo - Nothing.

10. Fiat - Nothing.

11. Honda - Nothing... despite boasting of second best sales month ever in August 2001.

12. Isuzu - Nothing.

13. Mitsubishi - Nothing.

14. Nissan - Nothing.

15. Porsche - Nothing. Press release with condolences via the Porsche website.

16. Subaru - Nothing.

17. Suzuki - Nothing.

18. Toyota - Nothing... despite claims of high sales in July and August 2001. Condolences posted on the company website.

Whenever the time may be for you to purchase or lease a new vehicle, keep this information in mind. You might want to give more consideration to a car manufactured by an American-owned and/or American based company. Apart from Hyundai and Volkswagen, the foreign car companies contributed nothing at all to the citizens of the United States in it's time of need. It's OK for these companies to take money out of this country, but it is apparently not acceptable to return some in a time of crisis. I believe we should not forget things like this. Say thank you in a way that gets their attention...


Keep buying foreign, Amerika.

[marinerbc]

No one cares about what the Big 3 have done for North America for over 100 years. No one.

They only know their hatred. And now they'll suffer for it, hopefully.

[Joe in T.O.]

Originally Posted by marinerbc

No one cares about what the Big 3 have done for North America for over 100 years. No one.

They only know their hatred. And now they'll suffer for it, hopefully.

So true.

[Xtreme08]

I am the biggest anti-Toyota person out there and as much I hate to do it I will have to play the devil's advocate on this matter. I am unsure if Toyota or Honda did contribute to that of the 9/11 recovery but I do know they contributed $2 million towards the California wildfires in October of 2007.

"WASHINGTON, Thursday, October 25, 2007 — Toyota announced today that it will be donating $2 million to the American Red Cross to support relief efforts for the California wildfires. This is one of the largest financial gifts the Red Cross has received for the California wildfires. Toyota is also donating Toyota lift trucks and palette jacks that will be used to unload and distribute relief supplies."

http://www.redcross.org/pressrelease...4_7180,00.html

To say they do nothing for the American economy or it's people is a little arrogant. I do not believe they contribute nearly as much as the Big 3 do but they do try and do their part. Give credit where credit is due.

PS. I am now going to cry in my room for posting a reply that actually defends the devil company.

[F14CRAZY]

Originally Posted by Joe in T.O.

So true.

I'd agree

[wolverine]

Originally Posted by Xtreme08

I am the biggest anti-Toyota person out there and as much I hate to do it I will have to play the devil's advocate on this matter. I am unsure if Toyota or Honda did contribute to that of the 9/11 recovery but I do know they contributed $2 million towards the California wildfires in October of 2007.

"WASHINGTON, Thursday, October 25, 2007 — Toyota announced today that it will be donating $2 million to the American Red Cross to support relief efforts for the California wildfires. This is one of the largest financial gifts the Red Cross has received for the California wildfires. Toyota is also donating Toyota lift trucks and palette jacks that will be used to unload and distribute relief supplies."

http://www.redcross.org/pressrelease...4_7180,00.html

To say they do nothing for the American economy or it's people is a little arrogant. I do not believe they contribute nearly as much as the Big 3 do but they do try and do their part. Give credit where credit is due.

PS. I am now going to cry in my room for posting a reply that actually defends the devil company.

Hummm, maybe because the fine folks in California buy tons of foreign cars Toyota was just protecting their investment? And maybe now that they are concerned about public perception with the (former) Big Three in flames (pun intended) they figure they can spare some of their BILLIONS in profit for a little good P.R. as oppossed to 2001.

[Xtreme08]

Originally Posted by wolverine

Hummm, maybe because the fine folks in California buy tons of foreign cars Toyota was just protecting their investment? And maybe now that they are concerned about public perception with the (former) Big Three in flames (pun intended) they figure they can spare some of their BILLIONS in profit for a little good P.R. as oppossed to 2001.

Motive is irrelevant. Fact is they did contribute.

[wolverine]

Originally Posted by Xtreme08

Motive is irrelevant. Fact is they did contribute.

No, Sir, motive is not irrelevant. If one is giving aid to lull an enemy into a sense of complacency it is quite relevant(and make no mistake, Sir, Japan views the United States as an economic enemy). You don't know or understand the history of warfare or you would not make such a foolish statement. Wake up before your prosperity, your freedom and your country is but a memory.

[Xtreme08]

Originally Posted by wolverine

No, Sir, motive is not irrelevant. If one is giving aid to lull an enemy into a sense of complacency it is quite relevant(and make no mistake, Sir, Japan views the United States as an economic enemy). You don't know or understand the history of warfare or you would not make such a foolish statement. Wake up before your prosperity, your freedom and your country is but a memory.

Do not speak to me as an ignorant import fan boy because I can assure you SIR, I am quite the opposite. My point is, in the eye's of the public motive is irrelevant. Toyota will not exclaim a negative reason for their contribution but will state that they wish to help out the American people in a time of need. Your entire point was that they do not help out the American people when times are bad. My rebuttal was that they do. Whatever we (educated automotive enthusiasts) believe to be the ultimate reason behind their contribution is of little importance. Just go and try to tell your Camry driving friend the real reason why they helped out California. He will laugh in your face. My point again, motive is irrelevant.

[stk]

Originally Posted by Xtreme08

Motive is irrelevant. Fact is they did contribute.

So if they gave 2 million for the fire prevention in order to receive more government support (tax break they shouldn't had received otherwise, law that favor's there car over other company, etc) that too would be irrelevant?

I'm not at all saying that's why they did it, I'm just putting you into a situation here, but you can see that it would mean something totally different then just a good will donation!

Motives are extremly important! For exemple, GM could had given 1.1 million instead of 1million just to say: we were better then Ford for the 9/11 donations. And guess what: people would be freaking mad at GM for using 9/11 as an occasion to make ''free publicity''!

[scania]

I found stuff like this rather distasteful. Follow-up questions would be:

What are the Big 3's contributions to victims of terror attacks in the UK, Spain, Turkey, Japan, etc., compared to those countries domestic industry? Terror attacks inspired by the US global war on terrorism - a war that I think the Big 3 profits from through defense contracts.

And remember one thing. Maybe there are companies that support humanitarian movements and other things without making a cheap PR stunt out of it.

[Xtreme08]

Originally Posted by stk

So if they gave 2 million for the fire prevention in order to receive more government support (tax break they shouldn't had received otherwise, law that favor's there car over other company, etc) that too would be irrelevant?

I'm not at all saying that's why they did it, I'm just putting you into a situation here, but you can see that it would mean something totally different then just a good will donation!

Motives are extremly important! For exemple, GM could had given 1.1 million instead of 1million just to say: we were better then Ford for the 9/11 donations. And guess what: people would be freaking mad at GM for using 9/11 as an occasion to make ''free publicity''!

Motives from a business perspective are of definite importance, I agree 100%. My point is, from the public's perspective (which was Wolverine's main point) company motivation is irrelevant. The company will not disclose they contributed to the people because they wanted a tax break. They will however explain it was to give back to the people who have supported them. In essence they gain the respect of the people and whether we like it or not they did contribute.

[wolverine]

Originally Posted by Xtreme08

Do not speak to me as an ignorant import fan boy because I can assure you SIR, I am quite the opposite. My point is, in the eye's of the public motive is irrelevant. Toyota will not exclaim a negative reason for their contribution but will state that they wish to help out the American people in a time of need. Your entire point was that they do not help out the American people when times are bad. My rebuttal was that they do. Whatever we (educated automotive enthusiasts) believe to be the ultimate reason behind their contribution is of little importance. Just go and try to tell your Camry driving friend the real reason why they helped out California. He will laugh in your face. My point again, motive is irrelevant.

No where did I speak to you as an "an ignorant import fan" and you show your weak intellectual skills in not being able to see that I did not speak to you in this manner. Secondly, in your original post you did not illustrate your "point" very well concerning the "eye's of the public" and where "motive is irelevant" to them. Thirdly, it is up to an educated public to be able to determine just what Toyota may be up to for "If a nation expects to be ignorant and free . . . it expects what never was and never will be” (Thomas Jefferson). It is up to "educated automotive enthusiasts" along with just plain educated people to tell "Camry driving friends" (of which I have none, thank you) of the dangers of ill conceived motives. Hit the books, Dude!

[Xtreme08]

Originally Posted by scania

I found stuff like this rather distasteful. Follow-up questions would be:

What are the Big 3's contributions to victims of terror attacks in the UK, Spain, Turkey, Japan, etc., compared to those countries domestic industry? Terror attacks inspired by the US global war on terrorism - a war that I think the Big 3 profits from through defense contracts.

And remember one thing. Maybe there are companies that support humanitarian movements and other things without making a cheap PR stunt out of it.

I agree with your first question but just remember the ultimate goal of an organization is to make money. I doubt any company would spend money on something, such as humanitarian aid if somehow it would not benefit them later.

[Xtreme08]

Originally Posted by wolverine

No where did I speak to you as an "an ignorant import fan" and you show your weak intellectual skills in not being able to see that I did not speak to you in this manner. Secondly, in your original post you did not illustrate your "point" very well concerning the "eye's of the public" and where "motive is irelevant" to them. Thirdly, it is up to an educated public to be able to determine just what Toyota may be up to for "If a nation expects to be ignorant and free . . . it expects what never was and never will be” (Thomas Jefferson). It is up to "educated automotive enthusiasts" along with just plain educated people to tell "Camry driving friends" (of which I have none, thank you) of the dangers of ill conceived motives. Hit the books, Dude!

What books shall I hit dude? You quote one passage and suddenly your intellectually superior? You make excellent points and I do agree with them but an educated public? I did not realize this existed. A person is smart but people as a whole are stupid. They will believe anything the media feeds them. And I concur about trying to explain what a company like Toyota's true motives are, but they will fall on deaf ears. The media has portrayed Toyota on such a socially responsible pedestal that when they hear Toyota has helped out California there is NO telling these people it was for the wrong reasons.

My ultimate point is that Toyota does help out Americans and no matter what you and I do people will continue to accept this company as their savior.