Lutz Update: Volt moves from Malibu to Cruze mules

[fp115]

Originally Posted by Buickman

and exactly what facts has GM produced? tech isn't there, battery life is a question, price as you say is unknown, yet there are already indications that government subsidies will be needed.

let's take a step back and see...Corvette is a success, came out in the fifties. LeSabre was a success and they killed it. not a very good track record now is it?

The facts they produced is the mileage it runs at, the specifics in which the batteries work (30%-80%), part of the performance specs, revealed the entire car (showing one of three interiors).

How does the Corvette or the LeSabre have anything to do with the Volt? Those cars don't have any of the technology the Volt is touting, GM will have no competitors to the Volt for at least 2-3 years. All other auto manufacturers are rushing to find ways to release similar vehicles, but have found themselves in a situation which will force them to release something that makes no sense (Mini for example).

[neshapop]

Originally Posted by Gung_Ho

Buickman is right, and he hasn't strayed off topic by commenting about the Volt.

Nobody is going to buy a $40K car that has been dubbed "Grandma's electric vehicle."

If you put "H" and "T" badge on this blandness and car media and eco-hippies would probably pee their pants and call this design "second best thing after the wheel".

I don't see Pruis and next Insight being more than grandma's car.

[1G6]

Originally Posted by neshapop

If you put "H" and "T" badge on this blandness and car media and eco-hippies would probably pee their pants and call this design "second best thing after the wheel".

I don't see Pruis and next Insight being more than grandma's car.

Never mind him, he's just the latest in a long line of Asiaphiles who've polluted this site with their inane opinions.

At least Buickman is qualified to comment on these matters.

[zete]

The Volt is a statement car. Those who buy one will buy one for the statement it makes. Economics won't play that big a factor, no more than it did for those who bought Priuses early on.

The fact it's also a GM makes the car also a patriotic purchase and a purchase that reduces the trade imbalance as well as oil purchases from abroad. Those are all tangible benefits along with it being an electric car, something the green contingent has been screaming for.

Will it sell? Yes. I think it will sell quite well. Does it need subsidies? Indeed. But then again, better to provide a subsidy to an American buying a Volt than shipping money by the boatload across to regimes that hate you.

[Buickman]

Originally Posted by zete

The Volt is a statement car. Those who buy one will buy one for the statement it makes. Economics won't play that big a factor, no more than it did for those who bought Priuses early on.

The fact it's also a GM makes the car also a patriotic purchase and a purchase that reduces the trade imbalance as well as oil purchases from abroad. Those are all tangible benefits along with it being an electric car, something the green contingent has been screaming for.

Will it sell? Yes. I think it will sell quite well. Does it need subsidies? Indeed. But then again, better to provide a subsidy to an American buying a Volt than shipping money by the boatload across to regimes that hate you.

sincerely hope you are right. however, as I travel I see a different picture. in Columbus Ohio, it's 70% Honda, the majority of the rest is Toyota, Kia, Hyundai. only an occasional Enclave or Ford/Chevy truck.

spent last Saturday evening in a very busy downtown Orlando. no joke, only saw ONE GM vehicle...ONE! drove I75 from Fla to MI, saw many brand new big and beautiful Toyota stores on the expressway.

Four Seasons in Philly, Ritz Carlton in Chicago...95% foreign luxury. couple CTS and Escalade. mostly BMW, Audi, Jag, Lexus,and Benz.

your feeling about "patriotic purchase" doesn't admit today's realities. the domestics have become the minority, not the underdog. the perception out there is anti GM. that's where Return to Greatness comes into play.

[fp115]

Originally Posted by Buickman

sincerely hope you are right. however, as I travel I see a different picture. in Columbus Ohio, it's 70% Honda, the majority of the reest is Toyota, Kia, Hyundai. only an occasional Enclave or Ford?Chevy truck.

spent last Saturday eveing in a very busy downtown Orlando. no joke, only say ONE GM vehicle...ONE! drove I75 from Fla to MI, saw many brand new big and beautiful Toyota stores on the expressway.

Four Seasons in Philly, Ritz Carlton in Chicago...95% foreign luxury. couple CTS and Escalade. mostly BMW, Audi, Jag, Lexus.

your feeling about "patriotic purchase" doesn't admit today's realities. the domestics have become the minority, not the underdog.

Demographics as you should know means one area won't be as popular. You can go to Miami and see a load of $100k+ cars, but then go to Fort Lauderdale and see 80% GM vehicles at under $30+. Though the many times I've been to Orlando I've found it to be generally rentals, not so much when you go in the areas surrounding Orlando (such as Kissimmee). I find it typical to see the Bentleys, Lamborghinis, Ferraris in certain areas of Florida, its a fairly rich state. The same can be said for certain parts of California. Some places I could drive around in an Escalade and go unnoticed, whereas in other areas you would have people stare.

I am not sure if you have access to automotive brand demographics, at least your area, where it shows which brands stand out and which are weak. You tend to see GM have more success in less urbanized areas. There are some obvious exceptions to that, but generally its what I tend to see. The urbanized areas seem to be very pro-import for low and high price points, you don't seem to see anything in the middle for them however.

I couldn't tell you what made Toyota, Honda, amongst other imports so popular from within these urban areas, its not what I do, but I have seen the numbers and know it exists. When GM emerges, it has to focus on urban areas, much like what GM Canada has attempted to do. Its a tough market and requires more creativity but that is where GM has to put its advertising focus.

[Wolfman01]

Originally Posted by BlackGTP

As great as the Volt is - how will it fare in the face of gas at $1.99? Can GM be a master of marketing like Toyota and sell a large amount of Volts? Everyone was excited by the Volt when we were hearing gas could go to $5, $6 or $7 a gallon...

GM just has the worst timing - and it's not even their fault. Please don't get me wrong - I love the idea of the Volt and GM - I'm just concerned over the timing (but who knows - gas could be back to $5 a gallon in six months).

This isn't going to last. The only reason why there is plenty of reserve supplies of oil right now, is because of the global recession. When the economy starts to pick back up, and demand for oil increases, prices will rise, and with an anti energy administration about to take office, there will be NO further development of oil in this country. Toyota brought the Prius to the U.S. when gas was half the price it is now. Look at where Toyota is sitting. GM will do quite well to keep this car at job one, and get it on the roads - early if at all possible without cutting corners.

[Gung_Ho]

Originally Posted by zete

The Volt is a statement car. Those who buy one will buy one for the statement it makes. Economics won't play that big a factor, no more than it did for those who bought Priuses early on.

The fact it's also a GM makes the car also a patriotic purchase and a purchase that reduces the trade imbalance as well as oil purchases from abroad. Those are all tangible benefits along with it being an electric car, something the green contingent has been screaming for.

Will it sell? Yes. I think it will sell quite well. Does it need subsidies? Indeed.

Someone looking to "make a statement" will pass on the Volt because it looks as ordinary as a gas-guzzling Chrysler Sebring sedan. "Looks" do matter to the consumer who is trying to make a statement. The people who bought the Prius think that it "looks" like an futuristic electric car.

The Volt concept car received many praises for its looks. Why couldn't the production car look more like this? Consumers would be willing to sacrifice a little aerodynamics to get a cooler design like this. The new Camaro didn't lose all of its sharp angles.

Originally Posted by zete

But then again, better to provide a subsidy to an American buying a Volt than shipping money by the boatload across to regimes that hate you.

What century are you living in? The Japanese love us Americans.

[fp115]

Originally Posted by Gung_Ho

Someone looking to "make a statement" will pass on the Volt because it looks as ordinary as a gas-guzzling Chrysler Sebring sedan. "Looks" do matter to the consumer who is trying to make a statement. The people who bought the Prius think that it "looks" like an futuristic electric car.

The Volt concept car received many praises for its looks. Why couldn't the production car look more like this? Consumers would be willing to sacrifice a little aerodynamics to get a cooler design like this. The new Camaro didn't lose all of its sharp angles.

What century are you living in? The Japanese love us Americans.

Well I sure hope you aren't an engineer, else you just failed first year physics. Quit posting gibberish that makes no sense what so ever, especially "consumers would be willing to sacrifice a little aerodynamics". People buy these cars for what they do, not nearly as much for what they look like. Toyota's Prius is a boring compact that has a raindrop profile, just as the Volt. There is nothing stunning about the Prius, but people get it because of its fuel savings and to reduce their carbon footprint.

I'd have another look at the Prius if I were you. Compared to the Volt it looks like just another bland and boring car. The Prius doesn't even use full LED lights where the Volt does.

Your arguments are very one sided and show your misinformation and lack of facts.

[Gung_Ho]

Originally Posted by fp115

$40k is not a fact. Please show where GM has officially announced the pricing. I also suggest you also look up in the rest of this topic. You are really taking no time to inform yourself about the car to which you are showing you know nothing about. Neither you or him have been able to produce clear facts that show the Volt will have no success.

Robert Lutz stated that the Volt would be $48K.

Rick Wagoner stated the the Volt would be $40K. (Rick is probably taking into account tax incentives.)

http://www.chevy-volt.net/chevy-volt-price.htm

A Volt will cost almost twice as much as a Prius.

[fp115]

Originally Posted by Gung_Ho

Robert Lutz stated that the Volt would be $48K.

Rick Wagoner stated the the Volt would be $40K. (Rick is probably taking into account tax incentives.)

http://www.chevy-volt.net/chevy-volt-price.htm

A Volt will cost almost twice as much as a Prius.

Those are not facts. Those are rumours. I can start a rumour today that Bob Lutz said it will be free for the first 100 people, doesn't mean it will be true.

Also a month later, GM confirmed that rumour to also be false.

[Gung_Ho]

Originally Posted by fp115

Well I sure hope you aren't an engineer, else you just failed first year physics. Quit posting gibberish that makes no sense what so ever, especially "consumers would be willing to sacrifice a little aerodynamics". People buy these cars for what they do, not nearly as much for what they look like. Toyota's Prius is a boring compact that has a raindrop profile, just as the Volt. There is nothing stunning about the Prius, but people get it because of its fuel savings and to reduce their carbon footprint.

I'd have another look at the Prius if I were you. Compared to the Volt it looks like just another bland and boring car. The Prius doesn't even use full LED lights where the Volt does.

Your arguments are very one sided and show your misinformation and lack of facts.

I personally don't find anything exciting about the exterior of the Prius--just like I don't find anything exciting about the exterior of the Volt.

The Volt is almost twice as much as the Prius. For $40K, the consumer expects an exciting exterior. A $21K car can get away with looking bland, but a $40K car can't.

[fp115]

Originally Posted by Gung_Ho

I personally don't find anything exciting about the exterior of the Prius--just like I don't find anything exciting about the exterior of the Volt.

The Volt is almost twice as much as the Prius. For $40K, the consumer expects an exciting exterior. A $21K car can get away with looking bland, but a $40K car can't.

Get over the price, it hasn't been announced, you are just going off speculations. The Volt and the Prius are completely different vehicles, different goals, different technology. Where you don't find it exciting, hundreds of thousands others do. Dealers are getting asked to put down payments on the car, whereas they cannot yet do so. YOU may not like the looks or style on the Volt, but that is a personal opinion and again not a fact. When you can come up with concrete facts and reasons for the Volt not to work then it will make sense, but so far you have simply rambled about rumours which have not and will not be confirmed.

[Gung_Ho]

Originally Posted by fp115

Those are not facts. Those are rumours. I can start a rumour today that Bob Lutz said it will be free for the first 100 people, doesn't mean it will be true.

Also a month later, GM confirmed that rumour to also be false.

When GM stated that the rumor was false, did they state the correct price? Probably not.

[fp115]

Originally Posted by Gung_Ho

When GM stated that the rumor was false, did they state the correct price? Probably not.

In May. They said that this was never quoted from Bob Lutz and was simply taken out of context to which the journalist made up the number.