Lutz Update: Volt moves from Malibu to Cruze mules

[fp115]

Originally Posted by Aprime

You seem to be completely oblivious to the fact that it's going to be a much harder sell [*cough* 30-40K mid-compact 4 seater] now that gas is back at levels seen 3-4 years ago.

My point exactly. Unless gas is at 50 cents and your car does 40 mpg combined, your monthly payments will be relatively the same, when you factor in gas and car payments. When gas was at $4 it was more expensive to buy a $20k car averaging 30 mpg than it was to get the Volt.

However most people who will get the Volt is not for cost, people didn't get hybrids because they cost less (since they did cost much more than the non-hybrid version) and the gas savings in most cases won't make you break even for at least 5-10 years with gas at $4. When gas goes up, which it will more people would be lining up for the Volt, but the fact that you can drive to and from work on electricity is enough to sell most of the first people who bought hybrids.

[Buickman]

the Volt is a farce and will go down in history alongside the air-cooled engine, the Corvair, the Vega, and the Chevette. all great ideas but commercially a dud.

[Dr. Show-Me]

I saw gas at $1.49 a gallon yesterday, but had just filled up at $1.59 a gallon. If you assume a 40 mpg car such as the Cruze, the cost per mile would be 3.75 cents per mile. If the Volt costs $10,000 more, then you would save 2 cents per mile with a volt, with a payback of time of 33 years, if you drove 15,000 miles a year. On that basis, a Volt is not economical, assuming gas stays under $1.50 per gallon. It is highly unlikely that gas will stay below $2 per gallon for very long, so the economic calculation wouldn't be as bad as it is today. It is my opinion that the cost of a Volt must be within $5,000 of the cost of a Cruze to make economic sense. At the current estimated price differential, Volt is only for the greenies, wealthy and committed. If they can bring the battery costs down and be proved successful, then the Volt can be a long-term success. And if a lithium ion battery does last 180,000 miles, then it can be a long term investment that makes sense.

[Dr. Show-Me]

I bought gasoline for 21.9 cents per gallon a long time ago, and that gave a 1 cent per mile cost in our 1966 Sprint 6 Mustang coupe, which delivered 20-25 miles per gallon. 1 cent per mile is mind boggling, but true. We've gone a long way downhill since then......

[fp115]

Originally Posted by Dr. Show-Me

I saw gas at $1.49 a gallon yesterday, but had just filled up at $1.59 a gallon. If you assume a 40 mpg car such as the Cruze, the cost per mile would be 3.75 cents per mile. If the Volt costs $10,000 more, then you would save 2 cents per mile with a volt, with a payback of time of 33 years, if you drove 15,000 miles a year. On that basis, a Volt is not economical, assuming gas stays under $1.50 per gallon. It is highly unlikely that gas will stay below $2 per gallon for very long, so the economic calculation wouldn't be as bad as it is today. It is my opinion that the cost of a Volt must be within $5,000 of the cost of a Cruze to make economic sense. At the current estimated price differential, Volt is only for the greenies, wealthy and committed. If they can bring the battery costs down and be proved successful, then the Volt can be a long-term success. And if a lithium ion battery does last 180,000 miles, then it can be a long term investment that makes sense.

The Cruze would be around 4.6-5.2 cents per mile if gas was at $1.6 per gallon. The Volt sits around .3 to .6 cents per mile. That is $0.003 - $0.006. The average mileage done per year is around 12k miles. Per year most will end up saving at least $550 if they drive perfectly in the Cruze, with gas at $1.6 per gallon. If fuel were to jump back to $4, you will be saving more than $1k by driving the Volt.

However the majority of people looking to buy the Volt will not get it due to the amount of money they will be saving on energy costs, but will be getting it for the same reasons the thousands of early hybrid adopters, that is to show their dependence from fossil fuels. The batteries should be rated to last 150,000 miles or 10 years.

[Buickman]

the Prius is ugly but Toyota is cool. the Volt is ugly and GM is uncool. combined with the high price, the Volt won't sell.

[fp115]

Originally Posted by Buickman

the Prius is ugly but Toyota is cool. the Volt is ugly and GM is uncool. combined with the high price, the Volt won't sell.

I fail to see any facts in this, what you think or your opinion is completely irrelevant to the topic.

[Buickman]

Originally Posted by fp115

I fail to see any facts in this, what you think or your opinion is completely irrelevant to the topic.

well let's see...hmmmm...I'm a guy who makes his living selling cars. when I first saw the '86 Riviera my heart sank, knew it wouldn't sell. at the time I was delivering 12-15 Riv's per month at nice grosses. for the '86 model I delivered 3 total. self fulfilling prophecy or dud? DUD!

same thing for the Volt. it's UGLY, as in Aztek UGLY. too high a price, not what was initially promised. see in the car biz you need to under promise and over deliver. the Volt is the opposite and therefore doomed to fail. check out my record sir, I am dangerously accurate in these matters. if I'm right and the thing is a DUD with a THUD, then what?

[fp115]

Originally Posted by Buickman

well let's see...hmmmm...I'm a guy who makes his living selling cars. when I first saw the '86 Riviera my heart sank, knew it wouldn't sell. at the time I was delivering 12-15 Riv's per month at nice grosses. for the '86 model I delivered 3 total. self fulfilling prophecy or dud? DUD!

same thing for the Volt. it's UGLY, as in Aztek UGLY. too high a price, not what was initially promised. see in the car biz you need to under promise and over deliver. the Volt is the opposite and therefore doomed to fail. check out my record sir, I am dangerously accurate in these matters. if I'm right and the thing is a DUD with a THUD, then what?

I can name you over a dozen people, not on these forums that think the Volt is a wonderful looking car, same can be said about those on these forums. The only initial promise was 40 miles on one charge and they are doing it plus more. Again, show the facts and not your opinion.

[Buickman]

Originally Posted by fp115

I can name you over a dozen people, not on these forums that think the Volt is a wonderful looking car, same can be said about those on these forums. The only initial promise was 40 miles on one charge and they are doing it plus more. Again, show the facts and not your opinion.

ok, the technology isn't there yet, GM itself admits the car won't make money for a long time if ever, the concept was wonderful looking but the production model looks like something designed by committee and will never sell in any volume. to move this abomination they will need massive rebates, inverted interest rates, and government subsidies on a space shuttle magnitude. mark my words, remember my previous predictions have all come to pass.

[fp115]

Originally Posted by Buickman

ok, the technology isn't there yet, GM itself admits the car won't make money for a long time if ever, the concept was wonderful looking but the production model looks like something designed by committee and will never sell in any volume. to move this abomination they will need massive rebates, inverted interest rates, and government subsidies on a space shuttle magnitude. mark my words, remember my previous predictions have all come to pass.

At the last public update it was said batteries are still too expensive to make profit, though there is a chance that prices will go down by 2010 and during mass production prices will go down. Whether it will be profitable you need to wait till Jan 2011 and find out. Chances are the first generation or first few years will not be profitable, the updates will allow it to be. This is the same as all hybrids on the market (including the Prius and Insight).

The government will be giving $7832 in tax rebates to each Volt sold.

[Buickman]

Originally Posted by fp115

At the last public update it was said batteries are still too expensive to make profit, though there is a chance that prices will go down by 2010 and during mass production prices will go down. Whether it will be profitable you need to wait till Jan 2011 and find out. Chances are the first generation or first few years will not be profitable, the updates will allow it to be. This is the same as all hybrids on the market (including the Prius and Insight).

The government will be giving $7832 in tax rebates to each Volt sold.

more of the same from the Ren Cen...hopes, prayers, and empty promises. soon to be followed by excuses, reasons, and PR spin, and oh ya, more Red Ink from Rick.

[Gung_Ho]

Originally Posted by fp115

I fail to see any facts in this, what you think or your opinion is completely irrelevant to the topic.

Buickman is right, and he hasn't strayed off topic by commenting about the Volt.

Nobody is going to buy a $40K car that has been dubbed "Grandma's electric vehicle."

[fp115]

Originally Posted by Gung_Ho

Buickman is right, and he hasn't strayed off topic by commenting about the Volt.

Nobody is going to buy a $40K car that has been dubbed "Grandma's electric vehicle."

$40k is not a fact. Please show where GM has officially announced the pricing. I also suggest you also look up in the rest of this topic. You are really taking no time to inform yourself about the car to which you are showing you know nothing about. Neither you or him have been able to produce clear facts that show the Volt will have no success.

[Buickman]

Originally Posted by fp115

$40k is not a fact. Please show where GM has officially announced the pricing. I also suggest you also look up in the rest of this topic. You are really taking no time to inform yourself about the car to which you are showing you know nothing about. Neither you or him have been able to produce clear facts that show the Volt will have no success.

and exactly what facts has GM produced? tech isn't there, battery life is a question, price as you say is unknown, yet there are already indications that government subsidies will be needed.

let's take a step back and see...Corvette is a success, came out in the fifties. LeSabre was a success and they killed it. not a very good track record now is it?