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Thread: GM's New Engine Oil: Use It Or Else!

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    Re: GM's New Engine Oil: Use It Or Else!

    Quote Originally Posted by MrCritical View Post
    You can walk into the shop of any GM dealer these days and listen to a littany of 3.6 liter or 5.3 liter engines raising hell.

    They all have one thing in common. They have between 3000-5000 miles on their oil change, and the oil life monitor says it isn't time to change the oil.

    Caught early, a fresh oil change will stop the noise. Taking the valve covers off if the customer routinely runs 6k mile OCI's will show a sludge problem.

    I don't know why these engines are so hard on oil, and GM isn't telling the dealers. I just know what I (and you) can hear and see.

    So the cheapest thing for GM to do is up the oil spec. End of story.
    Ahhh yes--- as the Acadia,Traverse,Enclave,Outlook owners have found out via Used oil analysis--- the OLM may report 50% life left-- but the oil analysis shows that the oil is past this point.
    Ive had 2 UOA done on my 2010 Traverse. OLM read 50% and 47% (about 5000 miles on oil)
    UOA showed that the oil was ok- but I would not feel confortable letting the oil go another 50%.
    UOA have shown MOBIL 1 to get beat up by the DI engines.

    Most of the owners who have their oil analyzed-- are no longer letting OLM get past 50%.
    Like me- I will change oil at around 50%.

    With this dexos 1--- it sounds like they need an oil that will not get beat up by the DI engines.

    As for why it beats up oil---
    And heres a possible reasonf why DI engines show soot on their tailpipes so soon...
    and why quite a few UOA show fuel dilution to be high.

    Heres an interesting response from a Pennzoil engineer in regards to the DI engine

    "Direct injection gasoline engines are more akin to European light diesel engines. They produce soot and nitrous oxides just like a diesel engine. If they have stratified fuel injection then they need a thicker oil (fuel dilution of the oil on the cylinder wall). Pennzoil Ultra™ Euro 5W-40, with its European light duty diesels qualifications ACEA B4 should be excellent in this application"
    Last edited by rbarrios; 10-05-2010 at 03:32 PM.

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  3. #32
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    Re: GM's New Engine Oil: Use It Or Else!

    Quote Originally Posted by rbarrios View Post
    Ahhh yes--- as the Acadia,Traverse,Enclave,Outlook owners have found out via Used oil analysis--- the OLM may report 50% life left-- but the oil analysis shows that the oil is past this point.
    Ive had 2 UOA done on my 2010 Traverse. OLM read 50% and 47% (about 5000 miles on oil)
    UOA showed that the oil was ok- but I would not feel confortable letting the oil go another 50%.
    UOA have shown MOBIL 1 to get beat up by the DI engines.

    Most of the owners who have their oil analyzed-- are no longer letting OLM get past 50%.
    Like me- I will change oil at around 50%.

    With this dexos 1--- it sounds like they need an oil that will not get beat up by the DI engines.

    As for why it beats up oil---
    And heres a possible reasonf why DI engines show soot on their tailpipes so soon...
    and why quite a few UOA show fuel dilution to be high.

    Heres an interesting response from a Pennzoil engineer in regards to the DI engine

    "Direct injection gasoline engines are more akin to European light diesel engines. They produce soot and nitrous oxides just like a diesel engine. If they have stratified fuel injection then they need a thicker oil (fuel dilution of the oil on the cylinder wall). Pennzoil Ultra™ Euro 5W-40, with its European light duty diesels qualifications ACEA B4 should be excellent in this application"
    Great commentaries! I have heard many complaints about the 3.6 DI engine, and the greatest was NVH. General Motors may have release them prematurely. I wonder if increasing the Oil Volume and pressure would help the overall problem as well?


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    Re: GM's New Engine Oil: Use It Or Else!

    Quote Originally Posted by rbarrios View Post
    Ahhh yes--- as the Acadia,Traverse,Enclave,Outlook owners have found out via Used oil analysis--- the OLM may report 50% life left-- but the oil analysis shows that the oil is past this point.
    Ive had 2 UOA done on my 2010 Traverse. OLM read 50% and 47% (about 5000 miles on oil)
    UOA showed that the oil was ok- but I would not feel confortable letting the oil go another 50%.
    UOA have shown MOBIL 1 to get beat up by the DI engines.

    Most of the owners who have their oil analyzed-- are no longer letting OLM get past 50%.
    Like me- I will change oil at around 50%.

    With this dexos 1--- it sounds like they need an oil that will not get beat up by the DI engines.

    As for why it beats up oil---
    And heres a possible reasonf why DI engines show soot on their tailpipes so soon...
    and why quite a few UOA show fuel dilution to be high.

    Heres an interesting response from a Pennzoil engineer in regards to the DI engine

    "Direct injection gasoline engines are more akin to European light diesel engines. They produce soot and nitrous oxides just like a diesel engine. If they have stratified fuel injection then they need a thicker oil (fuel dilution of the oil on the cylinder wall). Pennzoil Ultra™ Euro 5W-40, with its European light duty diesels qualifications ACEA B4 should be excellent in this application"
    Yeah, seen a few UOA for the LNF have 4% fuel dilution in them at higher milage. I'm changing mine every 5000kms regardless what the OLM says. Of course, I go to the shop on Saturday when we're closed and do it myself which makes the price about the same as a regular one for a customer.

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    Re: GM's New Engine Oil: Use It Or Else!

    The primary issue with the Dexos oils is not that it is a new and better spec for oil. No the problem is GM charges to be licensed to sell a Dexos certified oil. In addition GM charges a royalty on every quart sold.

    The fact that GM requires the oil and then extracts a fee for every quart used makes this whole thing into a bit od a scam. This is quite different than the other auto manufacturers requiring a minimum spec on the oil.

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    Re: GM's New Engine Oil: Use It Or Else!

    Quote Originally Posted by F14CRAZY View Post
    Unless I'm mistaken, Cadillacs and Corvettes require Mobil 1.

    Am I correct that this dexos stuff is still conventional? Is it still better to use a full synthetic?
    My 2006 Chevy Cobalt SS Supercharged requires Mobil 1 also....
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    Re: GM's New Engine Oil: Use It Or Else!

    Quote Originally Posted by PAULSTS1 View Post
    I am extremely well-organized and do so also, but we are not like most people, that's the issue!

    I too have an OC gene, tho often it's regressive.

    Automaintenancewise, though, I keep 3-ring binders on all our cars with all service and events, such as if I change the cabin air filter vs. the dealer, with the CA filter receipt punched and put in the binder.

    To me it just makes sense. And it's fun.

    Quote Originally Posted by PAULSTS1 View Post
    Great commentaries! I have heard many complaints about the 3.6 DI engine, and the greatest was NVH. General Motors may have release them prematurely. I wonder if increasing the Oil Volume and pressure would help the overall problem as well?

    That would be a shame. Our new Chrysler 3.6 takes six quarts at change. Just like my old 1967 Catalina 400.

    Quote Originally Posted by andretti View Post
    The primary issue with the Dexos oils is not that it is a new and better spec for oil. No the problem is GM charges to be licensed to sell a Dexos certified oil. In addition GM charges a royalty on every quart sold.

    The fact that GM requires the oil and then extracts a fee for every quart used makes this whole thing into a bit od a scam. This is quite different than the other auto manufacturers requiring a minimum spec on the oil.
    I can see both sides of this argument now. Given that the lowest common denominator amongst owners is pretty low, I can see GM wanting to protect their interests.
    Some knucklehead adding a quart or two of 50 cent 30-weight (30-weight, it's the best! don't need no fancy stuff!) bulk oil between changes will certainly not meet spec and there's no way for GM to know that was done without fluid-flow sensors in the oil-add tube.

    Quote Originally Posted by 1BadBlueSS View Post
    My 2006 Chevy Cobalt SS Supercharged requires Mobil 1 also....
    I see it now. It's a conspiracy!
    Last edited by Neanderthal; 04-07-2011 at 12:43 PM.

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    Re: GM's New Engine Oil: Use It Or Else!

    Everyone seems to say the cars are going longer on changes for various "bad reasons" but then they all seem to have giant sumps. Little Chrysler V6, 6 quarts... small Hemi V8, something like 7 quarts plus

    My 400 Pontiac engine in my Firebird from 1970's, only 5 quarts empty to full with a filter! Twice as many miles, but twice as much oil in the pan anyway

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    Re: GM's New Engine Oil: Use It Or Else!

    Has supply made it to the stores yet? I checked my local Advance, and they still do not have any dexos1 yet. Could this only be required for the DI engines?
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    Re: GM's New Engine Oil: Use It Or Else!

    Quote Originally Posted by Smaart Aas Saabr View Post
    Everyone seems to say the cars are going longer on changes for various "bad reasons" but then they all seem to have giant sumps. Little Chrysler V6, 6 quarts... small Hemi V8, something like 7 quarts plus

    My 400 Pontiac engine in my Firebird from 1970's, only 5 quarts empty to full with a filter! Twice as many miles, but twice as much oil in the pan anyway
    I would contact John Z. Delorean and ask why Poncho went down from 6 (maybe it was 6.5 w/filter) in '67 to 5 qt. for a smogger in the glorious '70s! Tell him Neanderthal sent ya.

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    Re: GM's New Engine Oil: Use It Or Else!

    Our new Traverse is "required" to use dexos.

    But you want to talk large sumps? My Pontiac G8 GT is 8.8 quarts.
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    Re: GM's New Engine Oil: Use It Or Else!

    Quote Originally Posted by big swede View Post
    You would think with all the negative publicity and the continued poor viewpoint of Dexcool GM would at least give their oil a less similar name. This is a money grab pure and simple. Their engines don't have any more of a requirement for special oil than anyone else's.
    My father-in-law is a tier-1 supplier for the auto industry, and he said that most of the industry has converted to using dexcool-type fluids because of its performance. He did say that it is a little harder on the hoses, but it's cooling abilities are superior to anything else on the market. Is this incorrect?

    Quote Originally Posted by Screw991le View Post
    Our new Traverse is "required" to use dexos.

    But you want to talk large sumps? My Pontiac G8 GT is 8.8 quarts.
    Whaaaaa!??!? Are you kidding me? If you use synthetic, that's a near $75 oil change. Though I guess it's not bad considering my 2.0L engine takes 6 quarts. Seems like the $15 oil change is soon going to be a thing of the past.
    Quote Originally Posted by andretti View Post
    The primary issue with the Dexos oils is not that it is a new and better spec for oil. No the problem is GM charges to be licensed to sell a Dexos certified oil. In addition GM charges a royalty on every quart sold.

    The fact that GM requires the oil and then extracts a fee for every quart used makes this whole thing into a bit od a scam. This is quite different than the other auto manufacturers requiring a minimum spec on the oil.
    GM makes money on every quart of Penzoil & Quaker state sold too? Do you have proof of this?

    http://www.orangelineoil.com/article...MDEXOSApproved

    Not to mention this:

    If dexos1 is not available, acceptable substitute engine oil for 2011 models includes:
    · SAE-5W-30 viscosity grade oil displaying the API Starburst symbol for all 2011 model year vehicles with naturally-aspirated engines, except Corvette, Camaro SS (with LS3 engine) and CTS-V
    · SAE 5W-30 viscosity grade oil meeting the GM4718M specification (such as Mobil 1 Full Synthetic) for 2011 model year Corvette, Camaro SS (with LS3) engine, CTS-V and vehicles with turbocharged engines
    http://www.sandyblogs.com/techlink/2...ification.html

    Sounds to me like this has more to do with the upcoming CAFE mandates than some big conspiracy to make GM money. I thought we all knew that eventually the costs to meet those EPA numbers were going to be passed to the consumer in one way or another?
    Last edited by N8s07ss; 04-07-2011 at 06:08 PM.

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    Re: GM's New Engine Oil: Use It Or Else!

    I'm not worried, I always use Mobil 1 in my cars.

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    Re: GM's New Engine Oil: Use It Or Else!

    No more new GM for me then.
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    Re: GM's New Engine Oil: Use It Or Else!

    Are buyers being told that they will be required to use dexos by the sales people? Just as they are told what octane rating they should use? Also, are the other manufacturers going to or are they requiring a more specialized oil? It would seem that if the blame is put on DI and this is also used by other mfrs, they would equally be faced with requiring a lubricant with certain additives. I would think that a lone vehicle mfr would stick out like a sore thumb if it had extraordinary requirements. If it is due to pollutants, all other mfrs are faced with the same requirements.
    I must say that with all the correspondence with GM Media before I purchased the Monte, I still was surprised that GM had dexcool instead of the standard green glycol. Oh well, my 89 Caravan just officially locked 190,000 miles today. I have used 5W20 from whoever made it (Quaker State, Shell, Sears, you name it) and aside from the head gasket job at 175K, the motor just runs. Smokes a little due to the valve guides but it runs and runs and runs.
    I do have a related question. I am guessing that GM's VVT is just like the Jake Brake system. A master cylinder and a slave cylinder that modulates the forcing function from the cam profile via a high speed solenoid valve. It basically changes the volme capacity of the hydraulic line from the master cylinder to the slave cylinder. This, in turn, modulates the forcing function on the valve. A neat way to change timing and lift of the valves and is based upon the fluid being non-compressible. With this in mid, the volume of the chamber must be small (the cross section of the tubing or passage). What is the diameter of the oil passage? In this regard, I am thinking of the oil sludging and compromising the performance. A plugged hole would mean no signal or mabe a fail-safe signal in which the system would act like a non-vvt system (the cam to push rod to rocker arm to valve). How fast can the signal be changed (how quick is the solenoid?)?

  16. #45
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    Re: GM's New Engine Oil: Use It Or Else!

    Interesting note on oil sumps...my 455 with filter holds under 5 quarts Why does a 2.0L hold more?
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