Chrysler Union Workers Canned for Drinking on Job Reinstated by Union - Page 8

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Thread: Chrysler Union Workers Canned for Drinking on Job Reinstated by Union

  1. #106
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    Re: Chrysler Union Workers Canned for Drinking on Job Reinstated by Union

    Quote Originally Posted by The Leprechaun View Post
    I'm coming across some extraordinary stuff on this thread. I've never heard such sentiments expressed before. As demonspeed said, there's obviously just a different culture in America. If that kind of stuff was said over here there would be uproar. Even amongst employers like myself!

    Ah, so THAT'S why they started their own business. To create opportunities for others. Silly me, I thought it was to make loads of money!!

    Again, I'm amazed at the disrespect shown to the working class on here. Comparing the very people who drive the economy to children! How disrespectful to your fellow man. So an employer can do as he wishes because its "his business" and to hell with the people working there. That sounds like something you'd hear from the owner of a sweat shop in China.

    I wonder how many of the people espousing these views are business owners and employers? It would be interesting to know.

    Power to the people!!
    I think the difference between your idealology and ours is that you think workers are entitled to a certain amount of respect and benefits - for no reason other than being employed. I'm not saying that a business should or will treat its employees a certain way, just that the business owners are and should be entitled to treat its employees as it wishes - it's their business, and their business will likely fail or succeed based on their employees. It would likely serve their business well to treat their employees well, but they shouldn't be forced to do anything outside of the law. Outside of the laws, the workers only right is to find a new job if they're not happy with the company they're at.

    I'm with demonspeed - I came from a very poor family and have easily worked my way up to a six figure salary by my mid 30's. It disgusts me to see people extort entitlements from companies instead of earning it for themselves. My mom was a single parent. She worked long days as a secretary and office assistant to make sure we had enough to make ends meet. I worked my own way through engineering school, found a good job, and have worked hard to make my way up at my company as a senior engineer. I never thought or expected anybody to give me anything other than an equal opportunity, and I've made the most of it. It wasn't that hard - you only have to try, work hard, and work smart.

    For people to demand things of their company instead of working for and earning it is despicable. I have no respect for people who seek out the help and protection of a union. They are basically admitting that they can't and don't want to do better for themselves - they want other people to hand it to them through entitlements. Artificially inflating the value and costs of labor (or product) is a death blow to the economy, innovation, and competition, and it sets a bad example for our younger generations. Children and people should be encouraged to work harder, work smarter, set goals, and not settle for mediocrity and handouts. Unions do exactly the opposite - they encourage mediocrity, stagnicity, and entitlement behavior. These attributes are not good for our country.
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  3. #107
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    Re: Chrysler Union Workers Canned for Drinking on Job Reinstated by Union

    Quote Originally Posted by TruckMan View Post
    I think the difference between your idealology and ours is that you think workers are entitled to a certain amount of respect and benefits - for no reason other than being employed. I'm not saying that a business should or will treat its employees a certain way, just that the business owners are and should be entitled to treat its employees as it wishes - it's their business, and their business will likely fail or succeed based on their employees. It would likely serve their business well to treat their employees well, but they shouldn't be forced to do anything outside of the law. Outside of the laws, the workers only right is to find a new job if they're not happy with the company they're at.
    You dont happen to own a cotton plantation down south by any chance?

    If so, be very carefull of a lawyer by the name of Abraham Lincoln. He has slightly different opinions to yours.

  4. #108
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    Re: Chrysler Union Workers Canned for Drinking on Job Reinstated by Union

    Quote Originally Posted by VS Ute 5Litre View Post
    At the end of the day the Headline is still incorrect and Sensationalist Faux news to sell newspapers and airtime
    Maybe I missed the discussion of the headline, but wasn't the Chrysler union workers canned for drinking on the job reinstated by the ARBITRATOR, not the union? Wouldn't he or she be a neutral person looking at the FACTS of the case and making a decision that was binding for the company and the union?

  5. #109
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    Re: Chrysler Union Workers Canned for Drinking on Job Reinstated by Union

    Quote Originally Posted by V-Car View Post
    You dont happen to own a cotton plantation down south by any chance?

    If so, be very carefull of a lawyer by the name of Abraham Lincoln. He has slightly different opinions to yours.
    Just curious -- how is it those of you in other countries know quite a bit about our history? We learn about other countries in grade school, but it's quite basic. Is it something you learned in school or have taken an interest in on your personal time?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Show-Me View Post
    Maybe I missed the discussion of the headline, but wasn't the Chrysler union workers canned for drinking on the job reinstated by the ARBITRATOR, not the union? Wouldn't he or she be a neutral person looking at the FACTS of the case and making a decision that was binding for the company and the union?
    Yes, but VS Ute's point was the headline said "on the job" -- he argues they weren't technically on the job; rather, they were off the premises during their lunch break.

    However, as far as we know, their CBA may say their lunch break is paid.

    Either way, the arbitrator made the "impartial" decision.
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  6. #110
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    Re: Chrysler Union Workers Canned for Drinking on Job Reinstated by Union

    Quote Originally Posted by V-Car View Post
    You dont happen to own a cotton plantation down south by any chance?

    If so, be very carefull of a lawyer by the name of Abraham Lincoln. He has slightly different opinions to yours.
    Really? Let's see which sounds more like slavery and which you would prefer to work for.

    At my company, and most union companies - the union (not the company) lays off union employees purely based on seniority - not skills, not productivity, not work ethic, and not quality of work. So once you've managed to hang around long enough to comfortably not be in the layoff pool, it's nearly impossible to get fired. These "senior" union members boss the young employees around and force them to do more work while they slack off - all because of a seniority system. So basically, the longer you're around, the less work you do and the more money you make. And guess what, if you leave the company and take another union job, you lose 100% of your seniority - experience counts for nothing. This forces union employees to stay at their current job and propogate the union system to keep their job.

    The salaried employees are laid off based on job performance, skills, and performance. If you chose to leave your salary job for any reason, experience and job skills allow you to find an as good or better job and not have to start over at the bottom of the pecking order.

    Also, every union employee gets an equal raise - regardless of experience, skills, work ethic, or work quality.
    Salary employees get various raises based on experience, skills, work ethic, and performance.
    Which is more fair? Your answer will say a lot about your work ethic.
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  7. #111
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    Re: Chrysler Union Workers Canned for Drinking on Job Reinstated by Union

    Quote Originally Posted by TruckMan View Post
    Children and people should be encouraged to work harder, work smarter, set goals, and not settle for mediocrity and handouts. Unions do exactly the opposite - they encourage mediocrity, stagnicity, and entitlement behavior. These attributes are not good for our country.

    Likewise, children and adults alike should expect that misconduct on their part will result in negative sanctions (demerits, termination from employment, etc.) administered swiftly and consistently. Obviously, this concept is something the reinstated Chrysler Jefferson North employees are unlikely to grasp in the near future, if ever.

    btw TruckMan, the commentary you wrote in Post #106 does an exemplary job of expatiating the fundamentals of good citizenship. Nice work!
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  8. #112
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    Re: Chrysler Union Workers Canned for Drinking on Job Reinstated by Union

    You forgot to add, TruckMan, should one desire to "move up" (ie: into management), they are ostracized as no longer allowed to be a member.
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  9. #113
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    Re: Chrysler Union Workers Canned for Drinking on Job Reinstated by Union

    Quote Originally Posted by demonspeed View Post
    You forgot to add, TruckMan, should one desire to "move up" (ie: into management), they are ostracized as no longer allowed to be a member.
    So true. Taking the next step to better one's self is seen as giving in to the dark side.

    "Stop working so hard. You're making the rest of us look bad." is their motto.
    REMEMBER GM - GOOD ENOUGH, ISN'T!!!

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  10. #114
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    Re: Chrysler Union Workers Canned for Drinking on Job Reinstated by Union

    Quote Originally Posted by V-Car View Post
    You dont happen to own a cotton plantation down south by any chance?
    I do not, though I have traded NYMEX cotton futures on CME Globex two years ago at this time of year when the contracts for Mar. delivery regularly crested the $1.50/lb. mark.
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  11. #115
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    Re: Chrysler Union Workers Canned for Drinking on Job Reinstated by Union

    Here in the United States, it's customary that school pupils study the U.S. Constitution and its first ten amendments, which in aggregate are known as the Bill of Rights. Since appreciation and understanding of the Constitution is apparently quite lacking in the modern day, and since an entitlement mentality is pervasive (and not just among folks affiliated with a labor union), perhaps we should approach this from a different perspective. The Bill of No Rights.

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  12. #116
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    Re: Chrysler Union Workers Canned for Drinking on Job Reinstated by Union

    Well... that's quite witty. Let's just hope it doesn't send this thread to the locker!
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  13. #117
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    Re: Chrysler Union Workers Canned for Drinking on Job Reinstated by Union

    So far I don't think we have found a middle ground..... It's what I have been saying in these last few threads, why must people be on one side or the other on these issues? We have a person to go and say he doesn't respect people who are a part of a union. Isn't that a bit far?

    Am I the only one saying that unions still serve a purpose, but recognize that there are unions that have become just as bad as big business can? People here are vilifying them or defending them to the death. I can't go that far into it before I have to lock the thread due to my own post, but sometimes I can't stand our culture/society because people can put ideals over people.

  14. #118
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    Re: Chrysler Union Workers Canned for Drinking on Job Reinstated by Union

    I hear what you're saying, ChevyRules. As American's (humans?), we like to "compartmentalize" things. Sort of like one feeling the need to be either a Democrat or a Republican.

    I think the subservient nature of this topic is because we are all giving weight to polar opposites/extreme examples to build our cases. This is how debate works.

    At the end of the day, could it be that one can't exist without the other?

    Another example could be that of the arbitrator in this topic -- both sides argued fervently what they believed to be their talking points. It was the arbitrator who made the decision based on what he was provided. As nice and "fair" as it would be to meet both sides in the middle, his responsibility is to make a decision. No matter what that decision ends up being, someone is going to walk away unhappy.
    Last edited by demonspeed; 12-12-2012 at 11:00 PM.
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    Re: Chrysler Union Workers Canned for Drinking on Job Reinstated by Union

    Quote Originally Posted by demonspeed View Post
    Just curious -- how is it those of you in other countries know quite a bit about our history? We learn about other countries in grade school, but it's quite basic. Is it something you learned in school or have taken an interest in on your personal time?
    We learn some in school, but we also travel a great deal more than most Americans.

    I think the difference in school, is that we learn about the 'world', whereas, maybe in America, you learn about 'America'.
    Sort of a case of having both eyes open.

  16. #120
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    Re: Chrysler Union Workers Canned for Drinking on Job Reinstated by Union

    Quote Originally Posted by V-Car View Post
    We learn some in school, but we also travel a great deal more than most Americans.

    I think the difference in school, is that we learn about the 'world', whereas, maybe in America, you learn about 'America'.
    Sort of a case of having both eyes open.
    Perhaps why we're so self-centered
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