the case for a 4-door muscle-car. - Page 2

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Thread: the case for a 4-door muscle-car.

  1. #16
    6.2 Liter LS9 Supercharged V8 vcs2600's Avatar
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    Re: the case for a 4-door muscle-car.

    Coupe sales are so lousy these days, it seem inevitable that the pony car segment will evolve to include 4 doors. Either a Camaro or Mustang- based sedan would sell in big numbers, I'm sure of it.

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    Re: the case for a 4-door muscle-car.

    ^^ Check Hyundai Veloster for the solution to the convenience/styling debate.

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  4. #18
    6.0 Liter L76 V8 T'Cal's Avatar
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    Re: the case for a 4-door muscle-car.

    Coupes are about style and style has to be fresh or it will fade fast. Midsize coupes offer the room, safety, comfort, and performance of a similar sized sedan but with a styling statement; the only thing you give up is the minor inconvenience of climbing into a back seat. As the driver, I don't care about that especially since I usually drive alone or with only one other person. When I need to cart around more, we drive our larger crossover as our family vehicle.

    One of the problems with the more recent midsize coupes from GM, Ford, and Chrysler is that once they are out, the manufacturers leave them be until they die a slow and painful death and then they claim that the car they abandoned didn't have enough of a following. Dodge could easily have redone the interior of the Challenger when they did the Charger and they should've updated the exterior as well. Now it will die in a couple of years with only very minor changes since its release on 2008 - forever ago! Chevy did the same with the Monte Carlo, a FWD pseudo musclecar. When Chevy completely reskinned the Impala in 2006, the MC only received a modified nose and bumpers. Go back a few years and you'll spot only minor differences between the 1989 and 1998 Thunderbirds/Cougars - that is an eternity in this market. Then there was GM's half hearted attempt at the GTO in 2004. The car itself wasn't bad at all but it was no midsize musclecar and the 1964 GTO was the car that coined and defined that term. The last GTO was a pony car and should've been sold as a Camaro or Firebird.

    To be successful at selling a midsize coupe, the manufacturers need to commit to the idea that these cars are a low cost halo car that must be updated substantially every 3-4 years to continue to draw customers, especially returning ones.
    Buy American. Buy Ford. So say we all!

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    Re: the case for a 4-door muscle-car.

    Quote Originally Posted by T'Cal View Post
    Then there was GM's half hearted attempt at the GTO in 2004. The car itself wasn't bad at all but it was no midsize musclecar.
    For God's sake, how big do you want the damn thing to be?!!

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    Re: the case for a 4-door muscle-car.

    Does a "muscle car" need to have 4 doors available? Must it be only a 2 door? Must it have a V8? Must it be RWD? Must it have classic styling cues?

    Was the G8 GT a muscle car? Current Charger? Genesis coupe? 370Z? G37 coupe? Last Monte Carlo SS? Last Impala SS?

    Ok we know a '70 Chevelle SS is a muscle car but what else is?
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    Re: the case for a 4-door muscle-car.

    Quote Originally Posted by F14CRAZY View Post
    Does a "muscle car" need to have 4 doors available? Must it be only a 2 door? Must it have a V8? Must it be RWD? Must it have classic styling cues?

    Was the G8 GT a muscle car? Current Charger? Genesis coupe? 370Z? G37 coupe? Last Monte Carlo SS? Last Impala SS?

    Ok we know a '70 Chevelle SS is a muscle car but what else is?
    The traditional "muscle car" was a mid sized coupe based off of a production family car with a large V8 engine. Front wheel drive cars did not exist at that time, so it was assumed that "muscle cars" were rear wheel drive. By the way, at the time, full sized cars like the Impala and Galaxie were NOT muscle cars by definition.

    Truth be told, "muscle car" was a marketing term; these cars rarely lived up to there performance image. It was easier to get the full sized sedans with special ordered engines from the factory that would smoke (almost) any showroom "muscle car". My 406 Galaxie in 1962 did just that.

    The bigger cars had better weight distribution with the larger engines, and didn't get too nose heavy like the mid sized cars did when you dropped in a big block.

    Nowadays, people use the term muscle car to describe any powerful, eight cylinder car, and there is nothing wrong with that. There were always high performance cars, well before the 1960s Duesenbergs and Cords had supercharged eight cylinders making 300 horsepower at ridiculously low RPM. But those were expensive. We're lucky insofar as horsepower is easily available to anyone who wants it at a price lower than ever before in history. Look at all the turbo/supercharger kits available for a wide variety of cars today. I would put a Whipple charged Suburban up against most muscle cars of days past. But not my '62 Galaxie.

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    Re: the case for a 4-door muscle-car.

    Would a personal luxury coupe count as a muscle car?
    '07 Subaru Forester 2.5X 5MT. Bought new. 164k miles. '05 Dodge Durango Limited Hemi AWD. Mom bought new. 90k miles. '74 Buick LeSabre Luxus convertible. 455/7.5L, Quadrajet, dual exhaust. '89 Buick Reatta. 3800 SII L67/F40 six speed swap to be completed someday.

    '87 BMW K75. Pichler V1 fairing. '87 Kawasaki 650SX. '85 Bayliner Capri 1952. 3.0L OMC. Restored. '71 Chris Craft Coho 33'. Twin 327QA's. Basketcase but restoration in progress. '70? Amphicat 6x6 AATV. 13 hp Honda swap.

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    Re: the case for a 4-door muscle-car.

    Quote Originally Posted by T'Cal View Post
    Coupes are about style and style has to be fresh or it will fade fast. Midsize coupes offer the room, safety, comfort, and performance of a similar sized sedan but with a styling statement; the only thing you give up is the minor inconvenience of climbing into a back seat. As the driver, I don't care about that especially since I usually drive alone or with only one other person. When I need to cart around more, we drive our larger crossover as our family vehicle.

    One of the problems with the more recent midsize coupes from GM, Ford, and Chrysler is that once they are out, the manufacturers leave them be until they die a slow and painful death and then they claim that the car they abandoned didn't have enough of a following. Dodge could easily have redone the interior of the Challenger when they did the Charger and they should've updated the exterior as well. Now it will die in a couple of years with only very minor changes since its release on 2008 - forever ago! Chevy did the same with the Monte Carlo, a FWD pseudo musclecar. When Chevy completely reskinned the Impala in 2006, the MC only received a modified nose and bumpers. Go back a few years and you'll spot only minor differences between the 1989 and 1998 Thunderbirds/Cougars - that is an eternity in this market. Then there was GM's half hearted attempt at the GTO in 2004. The car itself wasn't bad at all but it was no midsize musclecar and the 1964 GTO was the car that coined and defined that term. The last GTO was a pony car and should've been sold as a Camaro or Firebird.

    To be successful at selling a midsize coupe, the manufacturers need to commit to the idea that these cars are a low cost halo car that must be updated substantially every 3-4 years to continue to draw customers, especially returning ones.
    Sorry Dodge didn't upgrade the Chally. It needs some aero, since its Cd is about .36 compared to the Charger's <.30. And it needs the 8-speed.
    I'd seriously have considered one if they'd addressed those two serious issues, even though I have a strong dislike for the inconvenience of 2-soors.

    13Soul 11 200V6 07GPGXP 07Spectra 95LHS 04Imp 03Accord 02Regal 02AccordV6 01Accord 99GolfTDi 98Concorde 97Concorde 97HXCivic5m 96Concorde 95Intrepid 94Protege5m 92SHO5m 93Protege5m 92P50Taurus 91Camry5m 79Parisienne

    If a nation expects to be ignorant and free, in a state of civilization, it expects what never was and never will be.--Thomas Jefferson



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