Caddy and SAAB: Can Cadillac work globally?

[Exploder]

Give Cadillac a full proper lineup, and yes, it can compete globally.

I am a person that prioritizes recognition of American brands in foreign countries instead of simply selling Saabs in them just to simply have a stake in their luxury markets.

[seeg]

So if the solution is to revamp the product line and marketing to fit the European taste, how much would it cost collectively? Also, what would be the timeframe to implement this to a satisfactory degree?

[Tstag]

Why make us Europeans have sodding Caddilac's and Hummer's? We can't frigging stand them. Have none of you looked at Caddilac's sales figures in Europe? At one point they were lower than Hummers! I'm not joking when I say that at one point Caddilac barely sold 10 cars a month in the UK/ Europe.

GM is crazy. Europeans are much more likely to go for the Pontiac brand. In the UK we buy more sportscars per head of population than any other country in the world. Why don't Pontiac flog us the Solstace? Because Bob Lutz fogot we drive on the other side of the road? (Even he acknowledges GM made a boo boo on that one). We like sporty cars generally so a car like the G8 would probably do OK over here. We like cars that handle on windy roads not cars that are built for long distances like Caddy's.

A caddy to Europeans is either a golfing assistant or a big chrome monster from the 50's that driving Miss Daisy owns. For Gods sake do you not see a problem here? Do you REALLY think Caddilac can compete with cars like the new Jaguar XF, Alfa Romeo Berera, BMW 3 Series, Audi A4, and Mercedes C class? SAAB may struggle, but Caddilac, your havin a laugh GM you really are!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Tstag]

Originally Posted by seeg

So if the solution is to revamp the product line and marketing to fit the European taste, how much would it cost collectively? Also, what would be the timeframe to implement this to a satisfactory degree?

Nooooooo why would we buy a Mongol premium car when we can have a German, Italian or British luxury motor? All you would do is wreck two great brands.

[stormwatcher]

Cadillac is having a difficult time being a luxury brand in North America, so aspirations about being a global brand are seriously misguided.

[jc7222]

I am a Saab owner but, I do like Cadillacs. The problem with Cadillac is that it carries too much baggage. Why not use the cost of trying to shove Caddy on the world to develop Saab in its' home turf. Develop Caddy in the U.S. and when they have been better established here then try to go outside. Saab does not have the baggage that Caddy has and has a better chance of greater success in the European market.

[mgescuro]

Originally Posted by stormwatcher

Cadillac is having a difficult time being a luxury brand in North America, so aspirations about being a global brand are seriously misguided.

Ultimately, that is what it boils down to.
GM should probably pull out of Europe entirely, until Cadillac makes products that are up to par, not some strange rehash of a luxury car, designed to convince gullible people that the car with the Cadillac badge is really a luxury car.

[Exploder]

Yes. I would agree with pulling out of Europe until Cadillac gets its lineup straight.

[stormwatcher]

Originally Posted by mgescuro

Ultimately, that is what it boils down to.
GM should probably pull out of Europe entirely, until Cadillac makes products that are up to par, not some strange rehash of a luxury car, designed to convince gullible people that the car with the Cadillac badge is really a luxury car.

The scary part mgesucro, is that I don't really think Cadillac is capable of being world class anywhere. It may be that their time has come and gone.

[mgescuro]

Originally Posted by stormwatcher

The scary part mgesucro, is that I don't really think Cadillac is capable of being world class anywhere. It may be that their time has come and gone.

Cadillac had its opportunity and squandered it miserably.
They had $6B and wasted it. Where did it go? Where is the product?
All Cadillac has is an entire product that screams, "Not Good Enough."

I don't believe they will be world class. If they can't raise their stature in the US, then why bother with Europe? Where luxury tastes are far more discerning and the competition and nationalism is far more fierce?

Their time has come and gone. And who knows when/if another opportunity will present itself.

Every new product since STS has been a regression of where they should be going. And I do include CTS in this. Because Cadillac might be able to fool consumers into thinking this is a 3 or a 5 series competitor, but dammit, it's lacking so much.
Cadillac can't even get a standard naming convention for its cars, for crying out loud!! Each car has an inconsistent look to them. Where is XLR's analog clock? Where is the push button start in CTS? Why isn't CTS Coupe called CTC? Why isn't the SLS called STS-L, like the DTS-L?

And the list goes on.

It hurts.
I was going through my desk yesterday, and actually found the gold keys from my dad's old Fleetwood Brougham. They were hooked onto a brass Cadillac keychain with the Cadillac emblem on it. Those were the days, huh? Heck... Cadillac can't even get a decent looking keyfob!!

I need to quit... my blood pressure is rising...

[stormwatcher]

Originally Posted by mgescuro

Cadillac had its opportunity and squandered it miserably.
They had $6B and wasted it. Where did it go? Where is the product?
All Cadillac has is an entire product that screams, "Not Good Enough."

I don't know what will happen to Cadillac. They've always talked about expanding around the world and seemed blind to the fact that their lineup was never strong enough. Once they get a bailout from the govt., the govt will probably look down on any expenditures on upgrading Cadillac so things could get even worse for the brand.

[mgescuro]

Originally Posted by stormwatcher

I don't know what will happen to Cadillac. They've always talked about expanding around the world and seemed blind to the fact that their lineup was never strong enough. Once they get a bailout from the govt., the govt will probably look down on any expenditures on upgrading Cadillac so things could get even worse for the brand.

I think the problem is that the people at GM/Cadillac thought that their product WAS strong enough. With the exception of the XLR, it really wasn't!
The first gen A&S Cadillacs were decent. But the MCE's and the 2nd gen versions have fallen completely flat of where they should have gone.
And I think that is the most disappointing part of it all. Cadillac had the right trajectory, and they blew it.

Could you imagine if 16 and Cien were built??

I want Caddy to survive, but it seems that right now, they're worse off than they were in the 80's and 90's!!

I can't even suggest to my parents that they buy a Cadillac for fear of GM going belly up.

[baloo]

Originally Posted by Kennyboy

Yes, except in Europe. In Europe, people have a negative image of Cadillac, of fintails and pushrod engines. The BLS is a huge success in Europe.

If by huge success you mean horrible failure, then yes. GM was aiming for 10k units/year with the BLS. In reality they're having to dump them into rental fleets to sell just 1000.

As for the question at hand, of course Caddy can work globally, but it'll take a world class line-up, big investments into the infrastructure/dealer network and a decade or two.

[stormwatcher]

Originally Posted by mgescuro

Could you imagine if 16 and Cien were built??
(

At one time, I could, but not anymore as it just a couple more of the endless promises GM has made only to be broken. GM has often been good at producing stunning concept vehicles but then settles for medicrity in their actual product and Cadillac has probably suffered the most for that.

[mgescuro]

Originally Posted by stormwatcher

At one time, I could, but not anymore as it just a couple more of the endless promises GM has made only to be broken. GM has often been good at producing stunning concept vehicles but then settles for medicrity in their actual product and Cadillac has probably suffered the most for that.

Cadillac has suffered the most because not only does it have to compete with the most established luxury brands in the world, it has to compete for the most discerning customers in the world.

If Cadillac doesn't get it right the first time, then they end up with a mediocre product.

And that's what happened.

What I don't get is that when the first V-series came out, Cadillac took them to the most exclusive country clubs in the world and asked the clientele to rate the cars. And quite simply, they were lambasted. Comments like "nice leather, but the design is not attractive," "too much plastic," "great horsepower, but not much else," "nice to see cadillac coming back, but it still has a way to go."
One would have thought that Cadillac would take their comments to heart and improve, improve, improve!! This is the customer that they need to attract, right?? The Mercedes, Land Rover, Jaguar crowd.

Cadillac also failed to attract the yuppie crowd that is drawn to Infiniti, BMW, and Audi.

That leaves Caddy in limbo. How does one save a brand that is stuck in neutral? A few cars with promise and a whole bunch of crap otherwise?