Caddy and SAAB: Can Cadillac work globally?

[seeg]

With talks of SAAB being sold off, could Cadillac be viable as a global brand?

[mikmak]

Not in its current form. The CTS may make some in roads, but IMO it will take a significant amount of time. The rest of the line up is still too American (nothing wrong with that in the American market, but just like the Commodore is bland to American tastes, the CTS is Gaudy to many others).


.....I look forward to actually seeing one in the Flesh soon.

[mgescuro]

Not until Cadillac gets it through their head... Their cars are inferior to the world's luxury cars.

Their cars simply need to be better!!!
They need to work on their image, their prestige, their sophistication.

CTS might make inroads, but they need to realize that it is NOT a 3-series competitor. And they need to quit treating it as such.

BLS is an embarrassment.

SRX Gen2 shouldnt exist in its current form.

XLR would be an amazing car globally. But the interior screams "cheap." It's not worthy of the price tag. And the MCE is very clumsy.

DTS is...

SLS would be good as well -- not the STS.

I think the best way for Cadillac to make inroads in the global luxury market would be to more their entire design and engineering staff to Europe. Have them do all Cadillac designs and amenities. Heck... give it to the Chinese!! They apparently know how to do a luxury car better than Americans!!

Once GM removes its head out of its ass and realizes that Cadillac has lost much of the respect it once had in the luxury market, that's when Cadillac will begin its climb; otherwise, the brand will flounder directionless.

[cougs95]

I think Cadillac will do fine overseas. Though I agree that the rest of their product line needs to be brought up to par and improved first.

Who knows, maybe this "gaudy American style" will be refreshing to some buyers overseas? Something a little different and more bold than they're used to.

And in my opinion, Cadillac's cars are far superior than anything Saab currently offers yet Saab is an international brand. So why not try Cadillac worldwide? I think it's doable.

[seeg]

Originally Posted by cougs95

I think Cadillac will do fine overseas. Though I agree that the rest of their product line needs to be brought up to par and improved first.

Who knows, maybe this "gaudy American style" will be refreshing to some buyers overseas? Something a little different and more bold than they're used to.

And in my opinion, Cadillac's cars are far superior than anything Saab currently offers yet Saab is an international brand. So why not try Cadillac worldwide? I think it's doable.

I may be wrong, but doesn't Saab sell more units outside of NA than Caddy does?

[Kennyboy]

Yes, except in Europe. In Europe, people have a negative image of Cadillac, of fintails and pushrod engines. The BLS is a huge success in Europe.

[Kennyboy]

Originally Posted by seeg

I may be wrong, but doesn't Saab sell more units outside of NA than Caddy does?

Yes they do.

[cougs95]

Originally Posted by seeg

I may be wrong, but doesn't Saab sell more units outside of NA than Caddy does?

You're probably right but I still think it's because Saab is more established internationally than Cadillac is.

[mgescuro]

Originally Posted by seeg

I may be wrong, but doesn't Saab sell more units outside of NA than Caddy does?

Cadillac sells about 5-6,000 outside the US.
Saab sells about 135,000 globally -- 35-45,000 in the US.

Do the math.

[wildgoosechase]

In Eaurope, Caddy has to move upmarket, not a big problem. Buick can be the entry level luxury even if it is a Chinese import. The key is to have world class diesels.

[mgescuro]

Originally Posted by Kennyboy

Yes, except in Europe. In Europe, people have a negative image of Cadillac, of fintails and pushrod engines. The BLS is a huge success in Europe.

Cadillac also doesn't have a decent diesel.
Cadillac also fails to realize CTS is a 5-series competitor and it doesn't have what it takes to compete with the 5-series.
Cadillac doesn't have a car to compete with the 3-series effectively.
Cadillac doesn't have a car to compete with the 7-series.

And Cadillac has a piss poor image in Europe as gigantic, gas guzzling cars.

Cadillac's gas engines are also too large in displacement, so Cadillac is susceptible to displacement taxes.

I'd love Cadillac to be a global car, but their product lineup is ineffective and simply incapable of competing.

[aldw]

Originally Posted by mgescuro

Cadillac also doesn't have a decent diesel.
Cadillac also fails to realize CTS is a 5-series competitor and it doesn't have what it takes to compete with the 5-series.
Cadillac doesn't have a car to compete with the 3-series effectively.
Cadillac doesn't have a car to compete with the 7-series.

And Cadillac has a piss poor image in Europe as gigantic, gas guzzling cars.

Cadillac's gas engines are also too large in displacement, so Cadillac is susceptible to displacement taxes.

I'd love Cadillac to be a global car, but their product lineup is ineffective and simply incapable of competing.

They not having all of that right now doesn't mean that they won't have it, but that's more an issue of having the money available which is problematic due to circumstances.

[Tstag]

Cadillac as a brand is worthless in Europe. No one here takes it seriously against brands like Mercedes, BMW, Audi, Jaguar, Land Rover and Alfa Romeo. But then you have to remember that even Lexus struggles in Europe. Only European brands really do well in Europe and that's because European car buyers have an expectation around how a car should look and feel that non European brands never really fullfill. It's also incredibly hard to sell a Caddy to a Jag or Audi fan when they tend to ask questions like "but what did Caddy ever win at Le Mans?". There's a question around non European brands pedigree.

Hyundai are making what looks to me to be a really good luxury car in the Genesis, but they may as well pack up and go home now if they think it will sell in Europe because the brand is a joke here. Put it in perspective, Caddy normally sell about 10 cars a month in the UK (with the wind behind them).

Ditching SAAB is a really bad idea if GM wants a premium future in Europe.

[throwback]

Originally Posted by seeg

With talks of SAAB being sold off, could Cadillac be viable as a global brand?

Yes with the right products. The bulk of luxury sales are in the lower end. Caddy needs a true 3 series competitor, not the CTS which competes with the 5 series. They also need a 1 series/A3/ Merc A series competitor.

[2b2]

so...
could Cadillaab & Saabillac together become One Global Luxury/Enthusiasm Brand?

sorta thinking of a mix of F-Awd & Rwd vehicles, with the largest one mainly for the U.S.
& foreign [strike]dictators[/strike]
...I mean Dignitaries...
the smallest one would not be US-sold near-term but all the rest would.

this kinda goes back to my Not having a useful suggestion for how Saab could be marketed in the U.S.
so
maybe "C & S" could be trim-levels/pkgs?
Saab = sporty, a bit more austere/sleek (n/a on the 'big one'?)
(possibly as base models Only in the U.S.?)
Cadillac = well, you know
(possibly as Top models Only in the ROTW?)

altho
I STILL think that with just a little nip'n'tuck the CTS would make a d@mn Fine PONTIAC!!! (aka Torana)
hmmm... G-Torana... GT-orana... GTO-rana...
then
Cadillac could just START ALL OVER... ...which is what's gonna happen anyway... ...eventually... ...imho...