9C1 or LT or LTZ?

[Neanderthal]

OK, I've pretty much decided to dx the Soul and buy a 2012 Impala 3.6. That is subject to change. That's unlikely, unless I just can't make a deal.

I'd like to buy local, and will need to do some negotiating with a couple of the local dealers.
However, a dealer 2,000 miles away has caught my eye and I'm linking two examples regarding my internal debate.

Shipping would be about $1,000. If I can get the dealer to knock down the price by a grand, this is a wash.

Downside is I'm buying an untested vehicle. Of the four Impalas I drove locally, one of them had a distinct and irritating GDI rattle to it, both at idle and in motion.

Main reasons for the Impala are
(1.) dual zone HVAC
(2.) flip and fold back seat (LT & LTZ),
(3.) better ride,
(4.) equal or better mileage.
(5.) Bench seat availability or twin chairs (Police Package) is also a factor.

Greater power goes without saying, but I'll say it anyway. The Soul weighs about 2800 and has a 138 HP (unless they lied about the HP) GDI four. The Impala weighs about 3550 and has a 300 HP GDI V6. Both have 6-speed autos. The Soul has an irritating habit of downshifting for me, the Impala does not seem to have that auto trans program built in.

I've located an under-4000 mile 9C1 in Ohio priced at sixteen grand.
This dealer also has a decent collection of ~10K 2012 Impala LTs priced at $15,000. Some are from GM employees, some from fleet such as rentals. All in stock have buckets. None have the wing, fine with me I don't want a wing. Wings are for aeroplanes, unless they have a real function on a car.

Police Package:
+
Low, low miles.
Unique appearance.
Slightly better Badyear tires (RS-A vs. LS on the standard Impala).
Some HD components including suspension pieces. 150 MPH top end, vs whatever the stock Impala is governed to, either about 110 or 118, I haven't seen this addressed because no one gives a poop about the Impala now that the new one is coming. Bigger front brakes, so will not take 16" wheels.
Individual front chairs.
May have full-size spare.
Possible higher resale.

-
No dual zone. This is the LS model.
No flip and fold. Vinyl alleged-perpetrator back seat without center armrest with cupholders.
Does the seatback fold? Probably not.

http://www.lariachevybuick.com/Vehic...-OH/1813217313

http://www.lariachevybuick.com/Vehic...-OH/1835844593

Standard LT Model:
+Low miles.
Invisible cloaked appearance. Looking at Chevrolet Racing Beige color, though black and white are also available. I like the grey that earlier Impalas were available with, but as the line winds down Chev apparently is limiting paint supplies to the factory.
Dual Zone.
Flip and Fold. Folding back seat backs.
Bench available.
60/40 folding back seat seatbacks.
Same power, same acceleration figures as 9C1.
All 9C1 accessories should fit.
Minor mods will mimic 9C1 appearance. (Wheels, A pillar spotlight, for example.)

-
Donut spare.
People won't necessarily pull over for you as you loom in their rearviews.
Don't find standard 17" wheels especially attractive.

I'm told the Charger, Challenger, and 300 wheels will fit the Impala. I thought RWD/AWD and FWD had different offsets and other details that generally precluded interchangeabaility.

I've found two local new 2012 LTs equipped as I want: No wing, yes bench. One black, one white.
It's possible as the year comes to a close that GM will incentivize these babys. They will have to get into the mid-teens, i.e. $17000 or to, to get my interest.

GMPP sells extended warranties that are superior to the GM Certified Used Car warranty.

Any other comments are welcome, including "All Impalaz suxx!!" and "All KIAs suzz!!" Keep it to a dull roar, though, if you would.

[cdp326]

Think you'd be happier with an LT since you want the dual-zone, the flip-fold, and prefer the bench. As was said in the other thread you can swap suspension bits into one to make you happy.

Wheels are easy enough to change too, you've got the range of W-body wheels that should work as well as some other GM cars - Lucerne, DTS, VUE, Equinox, Torrent, etc. used the same bolt pattern and bore AFAIK. Don't know about current-gen Equinox/Terrain wheels. When they put the 3.6 in the Impala they even used leftover 16" VUE wheels.

[MrCritical]

I like the Impalas. Buy local, or for $1000, go pick it up.

[Neanderthal]

Thanks, cdp & MrCritical. MrCritical, you are all over this dealer stuff.

One advantage to proble-solving by writing down or creating a decision matrix is that often the solution becomes obvious even before you're finished defining the problem.

In this case, as cdp says the LT has what I'm after, and dual zone just can't be installed post-production without major headaches and expense.

MrC, it would cost less to ship than for me to go back there, buy and drive. It would be four 500-mile days which is grueling. And it gets dark early these days.

OTOH, if I stayed at Holiday Inn Express, I'd be smarter when I got back home than I was when I left.

Anyway, nothing has to be done immediately. The easiest thing is to trade the Soul, we'd have to get close to 15 grand on ebay to make it pay regarding the sales tax situation.

Thanks for your input.

[Quixote88]

cdp326 stated just about everything I would have... I agree about the LT model. It seems that would fill your wants/needs list more than the police package... Looks like an attractive vehicle. Strangely, I even like the wheels. They seem to match the color/character of the vehicle.

Best wishes...

[Smaart Aas Saabr]

But... the speed limiter! You can't live free and not die with only a vollgasgeschwindigkeit of like 175 or 180 km/h. It is really annoying when you rent one of these.

But I guess GM's computer can be hacked like Camaros

I'm told the Charger, Challenger, and 300 wheels will fit the Impala. I thought RWD/AWD and FWD had different offsets and other details that generally precluded interchangeabaility.

Yeah, pay much attention to offsets and centrebores here. RWD cars over the years have adopted the "offset" idea, and usually aren't just in the middle, but still the difference can be enough to make it look stupid

In Montreal often you see Impala's driving around on Crown Victoria wheels. The bolt pattern is different but close enough and the guys at the police garage don't care much so they throw them on, the offset is so different it sticks the wheels like 2 inches further out. Might look kind of cool, if you're into that sort of thing.

[Neanderthal]

^^ Thanks and mucho obliged, guys.

I feel an odd tingling going up my leg, with the prospect of getting back into a Genuine Motors vehicle.

I would imagine there are Impala owners who've figured out the 9C1 engine program so yes, you, too, can go 150 on your commute to work!

Some guys at ImpalaForums say they use Charger wheels. And I put my 16" GM wheels (5x115) on the '95 LHS (5 x 114.3) I had a few years back and nothing broke or went kablooey. Of course, I wasn't cruising at 90 either.

AND...naming the car will be easier with the LT. Lieutenant. As opposed to niner Charley one.

On a related note, we sold the Spectra today. Yaay! Now I'm trying to figure out whether to try for 15 grand on the Soul (remote start, autodim RVM w/compass, vent visors, flaps, $350 rear cargo compartment, Michelin Defenders, 2200 miles, step right up here folks, step right up!) or try for my best trade-in offer, maybe 13 grand.

[Smaart Aas Saabr]

leftenant!

Anyway one thing to consider about the wheels, for example the hole in the middle. If the hole is too big, not a big problem. But if the hole too small, then a big problem. So when hole are not identical, you can use wheel from A on B, but B wheels not fitting on A.

[FenwickHockey65]

I have an LT for a rental right now. Honestly I don't think people are going to be able to tell much of a difference between the 9C1 and LT in their rearview. Unless you strap a pushbar onto them.

[Tomko]

Well Neandrathal you know which one I recommend.

In another few months I will have been driving 9C1s for 25 years. Never been disappointed.

One feature of a 9C1 is the gap between the front seats. This allows for a small hallway to get to the back seat while in motion. My wife has used this countless times to address problems with small backseat passengers while I've been driving on the highway. It's saved many unnecessary stops on the side of the road. This gap between the seats also provides a handy space for my wife's purse. Whereas in my DTS that purse goes in the trunk.

The 9C1 suspension lifts the vehicle higher than stock to allow greater ground clearance. This is something that I value come the snow banks of winter.

For what I need out of a 24/7 car, the 9C1 answers my call of duty every time.

[Neanderthal]

leftenant!

Anyway one thing to consider about the wheels, for example the hole in the middle. If the hole is too big, not a big problem. But if the hole too small, then a big problem. So when hole are not identical, you can use wheel from A on B, but B wheels not fitting on A.

Big hole, little hole.

Leftenant indeed!

I have an LT for a rental right now. Honestly I don't think people are going to be able to tell much of a difference between the 9C1 and LT in their rearview. Unless you strap a pushbar onto them.

I was going to put lights on it.

Well Neandrathal you know which one I recommend.

In another few months I will have been driving 9C1s for 25 years. Never been disappointed.

One feature of a 9C1 is the gap between the front seats. This allows for a small hallway to get to the back seat while in motion. My wife has used this countless times to address problems with small backseat passengers while I've been driving on the highway. It's saved many unnecessary stops on the side of the road. This gap between the seats also provides a handy space for my wife's purse. Whereas in my DTS that purse goes in the trunk.

The 9C1 suspension lifts the vehicle higher than stock to allow greater ground clearance. This is something that I value come the snow banks of winter.

For what I need out of a 24/7 car, the 9C1 answers my call of duty every time.

Tomko, it's only 560 miles to Rittman, OH! You can't zip down there and run a few cars around for an hour or so?

Do you know where I can find the suspension settings for 9C1 and the stock Impalas?

[prowlerjc]

I'd go for the luxo version. You'll regret giving up the fold down seat and dual zone climate control, and the top speed is really worthless. Full size spare is nice, but you know they have thee things called junkyards....

[Dr. Show-Me]

The last models of a run are likely to be fullly developed, versus a new model that is just coming out and may have teething problems, so a 2012 would likely have fewer problems. On the other hand, the 2014 is based on the XTS/EpiII platform and is pretty well developed right now.
In a choice between a cop car and a rental unit, I would exppect the cop cars to have been driven harder much more while having heavy duty components. I would expect rental units to have not been serviced as frequently or thoroughly.
Tough choice, good and bad points for both approaches.

[prowlerjc]

Hardware-wise, the 9C1s were basically SS cars w/out the LS4, or so I've been told.

But I've always wondered if all Impalas got SS spec hardware when they went to the 3.6 across the board.

[Neanderthal]

From Wiki. Not much discussion of suspension settings.

The 2006 Impala was introduced at the 2005 Los Angeles Auto Show. Like the Buick LaCrosse, this model uses the updated GM W platform. The base engine is a 3.5 liter (214 cu in) V6 producing 211 hp (157 kW) and 214 lb·ft (290 N·m) of torque at 4000 rpm.[26] The new Impala features new taillights, different from the four-circle style of the previous generation.

The most notable news about the model, though, is the SS model's use of the Generation IV small-block V8 in a front-wheel-drive Chevrolet for the first time, and the first V8 in a Chevrolet sedan since the 1996 Caprice: the new 5.3 liter (325 cu in) V8 (with Displacement on Demand, now called Active Fuel Management or AFM) produces 303 horsepower (226 kW).[28] With the use of the 5.3 liter LS4 V8, the Impala SS is capable of a 5.6 second 0–60-mile-per-hour (0–97 km/h) time and a quarter-mile time of 14.2 seconds traveling at 101 miles per hour (163 km/h).[30] The car is 200.4 inches (5,091 mm) long, 58.7 inches (1,491 mm) high, and 72.9 inches (1,851 mm) wide.

Impala SS
Available trim levels are LS, LT, LTZ, and the aforementioned SS. LS became the base model. Six-passenger seating was only available as an option on the LS and LT models. Leather upholstery was standard on LTZ models and optional on LT models. The interior has been completely redesigned. The 2006 Impala featured a wood trim center console with chrome accents on all major control buttons. The dashboard featured a chrome Impala logo embedded in the wood grain trim that runs across the front of the vehicle and onto the doors. The new control knobs found throughout the vehicle's cockpit are similar to those found in the new Buick models as well as the Cadillac DTS, all of which feature a similar center console. Another interior revision is the location of the cupholders, which are now concealed beneath the midsection of the vehicle's center console.

The LS was the base model. It offered steel wheels with wheel covers (later alloy wheels), an A/M-F/M stereo with single-disc CD player, auxiliary input jack, and six speakers, keyless entry, air conditioning, cloth seating surfaces, and your choice of two front bucket or a single front bench seat.

The LT was the mid-range model. It offered alloy wheels, MP3 playback capabilities, and optional front heated seats.

The LTZ was the most luxurious model. It offered leather seating surfaces that were heated, an A/M-F/M stereo with six-disc CD/MP3 changer in the dash and a Bose eight-speaker premium sound system, a power sunroof, security system, and OnStar.

The SS was the top-of-the-line model until 2008. It offered a 5.3L Vortec V8 engine, leather-and-suede seating surfaces, eighteen-inch machined-finished alloy wheels, and unique SS badging. Due to its unpopularity, the SS trim was discontinued in 2008, leaving the LTZ as the top-of-the-line model for 2009.

Impala Police Package
The 9C1 and 9C3 models were based on the LS model, yet offered steel wheels or steel wheels with wheel covers, optional rubber flooring, preparation for police equipment such as sirens, radios, and lighting, special badging, and inoperable rear door handles, windows, and door locks. It also came with the option for a rear vinyl bench seat and front cloth bucket or bench seats, both cloth front and rear seats, or vinyl front and rear seats. It also offered preparation for a criminal cage to be installed between the front and rear seats. The foglamps seen on the LT, LTZ, & SS were optional in 2008 & stayed as an option until 2012 which did away with that option. The 9C1 & 9C3 also had the option of having the spoiler seen on the LT, & LTZ until being replaced by the spoiler that is on the SS & other models in 2009. The police sedans received the FlexFuel in 2008 feature to compete against the Ford Crown Victoria Police Interceptor, which also received a similar feature allowing it to utilize E85. Also updated were the 9C1 and 9C3 trim levels for the Police Package models, which did not have the civilian SS's 303 horsepower (226 kW) V8 engine, but used the 3.9 liter (237 cu in) V6.[27] Police Sedans utilized the SS radiator and cooling system as an upgrade from the standard 3.9 liter engine (used in the Impala LTZ). GM did not wish to design a specific radiator and cooling system to equip a low-production V8 police vehicle. Also, the heavy-duty steel wheels were not redesigned, and as such, the Police Sedan used the original center caps or the older style wheel covers. The 9C1 and 9C3 were equipped with an external trunk lock tumbler starting in 2008. Neither feature was available for the civilian version of the car. The 9C1 and 9C3 police models had the standard wood grain for the 2006 model year until 2007 which was replaced by an aluminized interior trim. For the 2012 model year both the 9C1 & 9C3 have different end caps where the fog lamps are on the LT & LTZ trims on the front end bumper, received 17-inch rims & new wheel covers, and the same LFX V6 that powers the civilian Impala, Caprice PPV and will be in the next generation civilian model only. This model is being replaced by the Caprice PPV based on Holden's WM Caprice in many nationwide police fleets, so the Impala Police production will cease after the 2013 model year. The Impala will only be available as a civilian model for 2014, since the Caprice already takes its place in police fleets.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chevrol...2.80.932013.29