3.8L 3800 V6-Should GM modernize it?

[IAMCANADIAN]

The 3.8L V6 techincally is the first V6 in a passenger car, it's still around today which, after 40 some odd years is a long time, but it really is a great engine. GM has pretty much limited its use into 3 models, but why not modernize it like the High-Value V6's and keep on using it. The 3800 V6 has a reputation for being used in so many GM products for so many years, but it the engine generally is praised, not dissed for it's amazing power and torque and it's rather good fuel economy. I was looking at the power ratings on the 87 Buick GNX and it's amazing. Even at that time, it had 275 HP and 360 LB-FT of torque and was able to acheive excellent performance ratings. Considering the supercharged 3800 has 260 HP, why not turbocharge it instead and acheive power ratings that even exceed the GNX's. Saab is pro at turbocharging and by teaming up with them, GM could do wonders with this engine. They could add AFM (Active Fuel Management), Variable Valve Timing and even possibly 3-valves per cylinder. OHV engines today have so many possibilities as we've seen with GM and it wouldn't be fair to let the 3800 rot when they can make it into a super powerhouse. It already has good reliability and a great reputation and could even spark more life into the Grand Prix and the Allure and Lucerne again. I've driven quite a few GM's that are equipped with this engine, and I've always been impressed with the amount of power and torque there is and how it can haul a big Buick around without any strain. Sometimes it's good to let go of the past, but when you have an engine that is so reliable and well liked, why get rid of it? Sure the HV V6's are pretty good, but the 3.8 is better suited to larger vehicles because of its excellent torque. What are your thoughts?

[2648562]

I once drove like 5 miles with little or no engine coolant with an old 3.8. By the time I made it home the car didn't even have the power to make it up my driveway. I thought the engine was toast. But later that night, after buying a 40 dollar radiator, it was running like new (which was good in an underpowered eighties sort of way).

[suckstobeyou]

GM should do an overhaul on it like they did with the shortstar, but since they're milking the 3.6 cow nowadays, I don't think it will happen.
THe 3.8 is a very good engine and you can squeeze over 700 horses out of it by just turbocharging it.

here's the link for all the Nay sayers

http://www.intense-racing.com/GTP/TurboGP.html

[ChevyRules]

Yes, GM should modernize the 3800 and make a Series IV. The first thing to do is to make the engine smaller so it could fit in the Epsilons and other new platforms. My dad has a Lucerne rental with the 3800. It is smooth and at 197 HP, it has very good acceleration. GM DON'T KILL THE 3800 V6!

[suckstobeyou]

Originally Posted by Chevy_Rules

Yes, GM should modernize the 3800 and make a Series IV. The first thing to do is to make the engine smaller so it could fit in the Epsilons and other new platforms. My dad has a Lucerne rental with the 3800. It is smooth and at 197 HP, it has very good acceleration. GM DON'T KILL THE 3800 V6!

no offense bro, but for the past year and a half all i've heard is bitching about the "ancient" 3800. now that they wanna get rid of it, people are changing their opinion. WTF?!

[ChevyRules]

Originally Posted by suckstobeyou

no offense bro, but for the past year and a half all i've heard is bitching about the "ancient" 3800. now that they wanna get rid of it, people are changing their opinion. WTF?!

Well I wasn't bitchin about it. My first experience with the 3800 was in the '06 Grand Prix rental I had back in October. The Lucerne is the 2nd time I have been in a 3800 equipped vehicle. Both times I have been impressed with the 3800. It is a good engine. People just can't get past the 3800's age.

[GTOTITO]

I've always liked the newer 3.8 from 1994 and up , they are great motors to me the best v6. I still have a 1998 park ave ultra with 223,872 mi and still running strong, I've only changed the water pump everything else is still original. I knw a guy with a GNX converted into twin turbo pushing over 975hp the guy is fron ATR Applied tech the car is crazy fast. Anyway I think GM should keep producing this motor with a few upgrades like all aluminum motor and active fuel mngmnt(DOD).

[86fleet]

The 3800 is a great engine, but is it really needed?
The 3500 and 3900 are also good engines and make roughly the same amount of power that the standard and supercharged 3800 make.
I just don't see the need for an engine who's role is taken by two other more modern ones.

[IAMCANADIAN]

Originally Posted by 86fleet

The 3800 is a great engine, but is it really needed?
The 3500 and 3900 are also good engines and make roughly the same amount of power that the standard and supercharged 3800 make.
I just don't see the need for an engine who's role is taken by two other more modern ones.

That's kind of the argument with it. However it's quite odd that even though the 242 HP 3900 V6 in the 06 Impala gets a 0-60 time that's basically identical to the 200 HP 3.8L V6 in the 2005 Impala. The 2005 and 2006 cars aren't different enough to argue that the new Impala is a lot heavier or the gearing is much different. The low end power and torque of the 3.8 is what gives it an advantage in many ways, especially in turbo or supercharged form. The 3900 isn't really any better on gas than the supercharged 3.8 and doesn't develop the power and torque at low end to move a big car with the same ease. The 3.9L V6 is more suited to smaller vehicles or an entry level engine for larger ones where the 3.8, if it's updated, it could be a strong performer backed by its long reputation.

[a_v_s]

Originally Posted by IAMCANADIAN

That's kind of the argument with it. However it's quite odd that even though the 242 HP 3900 V6 in the 06 Impala gets a 0-60 time that's basically identical to the 200 HP 3.8L V6 in the 2005 Impala. The 2005 and 2006 cars aren't different enough to argue that the new Impala is a lot heavier or the gearing is much different. The low end power and torque of the 3.8 is what gives it an advantage in many ways, especially in turbo or supercharged form. The 3900 isn't really any better on gas than the supercharged 3.8 and doesn't develop the power and torque at low end to move a big car with the same ease. The 3.9L V6 is more suited to smaller vehicles or an entry level engine for larger ones where the 3.8, if it's updated, it could be a strong performer backed by its long reputation.

I disagree. GM should not waste any more money on such endeavors. Instead of dividing the pot umpteen ways among the plethora of V6 engines under their belt, they should take the same pot and use it on a single engine family.

The amount of money it would take to "modernize" the 3800, would probably be better spent to make the 3.6 HF more cost-effective/competitive.

[goodcase]

http://www.intense-racing.com/GTP/GT...%20Marchio.jpg


its good to see a car rev past redline and into the darkness...kidding, but that looks funny

[IAMCANADIAN]

Originally Posted by a_v_s

I disagree. GM should not waste any more money on such endeavors. Instead of dividing the pot umpteen ways among the plethora of V6 engines under their belt, they should take the same pot and use it on a single engine family.

The amount of money it would take to "modernize" the 3800, would probably be better spent to make the 3.6 HF more cost-effective/competitive.

That's true, but the 3.6L V6 is a costlier engine to produce. The High Value Engines are cheap to build and have competitive power ratings and get good fuel efficiency, well the 3900 isn't that desireable without AFM, but making the 3.6L V6 the standard engine in GM's lineup would be costlier than updating already good engines. The 3800 isn't meant to be an engine that's found in a Cadillac or a high end model, although it is a staple in Buick's lineup. It's meant to pull big Buicks and still acheive great power and efficiency and be the super performance engine in the larger Pontiacs. But considering GM is still keeping this engine, they might as well spend a bit to update it and take advantage of its possibilities. The 3900 is better suited to a Malibu or G6 than an Impala and Monte Carlo. A 3.8 Turbo like in the GNX would be a really great addition to Pontiac and even Buick. 197 and 200 HP are good numbers, but with VVT or turbocharging, GM can at least stay competitive with newer engines and still have the reliability and reputation advantage over the competition.

[86fleet]

Originally Posted by IAMCANADIAN

That's kind of the argument with it. However it's quite odd that even though the 242 HP 3900 V6 in the 06 Impala gets a 0-60 time that's basically identical to the 200 HP 3.8L V6 in the 2005 Impala. The 2005 and 2006 cars aren't different enough to argue that the new Impala is a lot heavier or the gearing is much different. The low end power and torque of the 3.8 is what gives it an advantage in many ways, especially in turbo or supercharged form. The 3900 isn't really any better on gas than the supercharged 3.8 and doesn't develop the power and torque at low end to move a big car with the same ease. The 3.9L V6 is more suited to smaller vehicles or an entry level engine for larger ones where the 3.8, if it's updated, it could be a strong performer backed by its long reputation.

You bring up some good points.

I've been thinking about this for a little bit, and I've changed my mind.
What GM should do is give it a huge update, including all aluminum construction, AFM, VVT, and direct injection. Also, GM should make it unique to a division, like Pontiac or perhaps Buick. This would fix the overlap issue. I imagine that an updated 3800 would truly provide V8 power with V6 fuel economy.

[IAMCANADIAN]

Originally Posted by 86fleet

You bring up some good points.

I've been thinking about this for a little bit, and I've changed my mind.
What GM should do is give it a huge update, including all aluminum construction, AFM, VVT, and direct injection. Also, GM should make it unique to a division, like Pontiac or perhaps Buick. This would fix the overlap issue. I imagine that an updated 3800 would truly provide V8 power with V6 fuel economy.

I agree completely. The 3500 V6 can stick around all divisions but like GM is doing already, make the Pontiac and Saturn have 224 HP and the Chevy have 217 HP. Although that isn't a big difference, it does emphasize the performance part that Pontiac and even Saturn is trying to acheive. Plus the new Grand Prix or G8 w/e the call it would be sweet with an updated 3800 V6 as its standard engine. The GXP can have the 5.3L V8 but of course with more power as even the Tahoe has 320 HP compared to 303.

[mgescuro]

What's the use of the 3800 now??

GM has the new HF engines at 2.8, 3.2, and 3.6L.

3800 should jus tbe retired.