Tundra Supplants Sierra As the #4 Half-Ton?

[GM-Joe]

Up To $7000 in cash incentives on a brand spanking new product is the only way they could do it. Toyoda has no track record with full-sizers and that puffy thing gets lousy gas mileage; I am still not impressed and won't even consider letter one of those out in traffic.

[Xenon]

Originally Posted by Rob052067

Let's not forget that Toyota has been offering huge incentives on Tundras for months, while GM has been holding back - in effect giving up market share for better per-vehicle profit. Even with the overall slow down in truck sales this year due in part to the housing slump, the 60-month zero-percent financing GM just announced should move some metal.

At this stage chances are that Tundra is bringing home more profit than GM is with the 900's even with the incentive tags on them.

[asim]

I suggest a merger with this thread:
Tundra Supplants Sierra As the #4 Half-Ton?

[paul8488]

Originally Posted by GM-Joe

Up To $7000 in cash incentives on a brand spanking new product is the only way they could do it. Toyoda has no track record with full-sizers and that puffy thing gets lousy gas mileage; I am still not impressed and won't even consider letter one of those out in traffic.

Toyota has no track record with fullsize trucks... you're right... and they're not so arrogant that they pretend they do. That's why they're doing whatever they cna to get the vehicle in the hands of customers to create that track record they need. You're not impressed and wouldn't consider one, but it appears that there vare more people willing to try this than a Sierra, which is scary. Toyota's overall reputation is carrying over at least in part to the Tundra.

[roteague]

Originally Posted by racy

The problem is, its not a second rate POS. Its a good truck. And yes, they are making conquest sales.

Chevy and GMC dealers have a hard time getting around the fact that their trucks don't offer 6 speed transmissions. That single question, unfortunately stops the sales pitch dead. It goes no further.

Like everyone else has said, GM needs to drop 6 speeds into their trucks and they need to get an advertising clue. GM has no one else to blame but themselves. If the Tundra was truly a bad truck, it wouldn't sell. Want proof? Look at the past Tundras. Toyota offered incentive after incentive on them. People weren't buying. The new Tunda is a different story. It has people's attention. I work with three Tundra converts: Two former GM and on Ford owner. They all have said hands down, the Tundra is a better truck. They didn't say it was a better deal. They say it is a better truck.

That should be getting GM's attention. But it won't. GM will squander, cut corners and deny themselves into oblivion. We're watching it happen. "Competetive" won't work anymore. GM has to build clear, class leading vehicles.

That is a bunch of nonsense. Everyone, including the pundits say the GM is a much better truck. You will always find a few who will say it is better, but the fact is, it still is a 2nd rate POS. They cheaped everything they could in the truck, to maximize profit and make a bundle. You should go find out what GM trucks are before making remarks that have no basis in fact.

[Xenon]

^^^
I just pray that GM execs dont have the same arrogrant attude that you have for the Tundra.

[paul8488]

Originally Posted by roteague

You will always find a few who will say it is better, but the fact is, it still is a 2nd rate POS. They cheaped everything they could in the truck, to maximize profit and make a bundle.

Well then hats off to Toyota... they are selling more POS Tundras than GMC is selling excellent Sierras. Who's the loser here? I'd say GM. They spent a fortune making great trucks when all people want are POS trucks.

[SDRacing]

Originally Posted by RamJet502

Time to start fighting back. Get the 6.2L under the hood and give them a six speed transmission ASAP.

You aint kiddin, I dont understand what the hold up is on this......Are the engines not ready yet? Are there not enought trannies to go around?? GM has known this for months and months, and could have ramped up production if need be. They shouldve been working around the clock getting the engines built, along with the 6speeds.

[fastball]

Originally Posted by racy

The problem is, its not a second rate POS. Its a good truck. And yes, they are making conquest sales.

Chevy and GMC dealers have a hard time getting around the fact that their trucks don't offer 6 speed transmissions. That single question, unfortunately stops the sales pitch dead. It goes no further.

Like everyone else has said, GM needs to drop 6 speeds into their trucks and they need to get an advertising clue. GM has no one else to blame but themselves. If the Tundra was truly a bad truck, it wouldn't sell. Want proof? Look at the past Tundras. Toyota offered incentive after incentive on them. People weren't buying. The new Tunda is a different story. It has people's attention. I work with three Tundra converts: Two former GM and on Ford owner. They all have said hands down, the Tundra is a better truck. They didn't say it was a better deal. They say it is a better truck.

That should be getting GM's attention. But it won't. GM will squander, cut corners and deny themselves into oblivion. We're watching it happen. "Competetive" won't work anymore. GM has to build clear, class leading vehicles.

I completely agree. The biggest mistake GM made with the GMT-900s is that they did not have a complete 6 speed transmission ready for full production in every unit the second the first Silverado began it's assembly process. People love to hate the Tundra, but it is a real truck. The old Tundra wasn't, and I think everyone (even Toyota lovers) agrees.

Lambaste the new Tundra all you want, but will haul, carry, and tow every load an equivalent Chevy, GMC, or Ford can. In the end, it's the product that matters and Toyota has given customers another option. People today are no longer brand loyal. If GM doesn't make some inroads with offering every option and safety feature Toyota does (moonroof, side airbags, dual power seats with driver's side memory, tilt/telescopic steering column) the 6 speed trans, and even more, they are going to slowly but surely loose their grip in the pickup truck market.

[BigThreeForever]

I see a terrible pattern here.

In 1982, Toyota introduced a nondescript sedan. It was called "Camry". It sold moderately well, mainly to Toyota loyalists.

In late 1986, they introduced a second generation Camry, and later on started assembling it in America. The critics loved this second generation and it sold very well indeed. Many of its sales were to converts who had previously bought GM A-bodies and the like.

In late 1991, they introduced a third generation Camry, which David E. Davis, Jr., then editor of Automobile magazine, dubbed the "best car made in America". The third generation sold even better.

In 1996, the fourth generation Camry debuted, and wasted little time in becoming the best selling car in the United States.

The fifth generation Camry followed in 2001, and continued to totally dominate the sales chart.

The sixth generation Camry introduced last year is utterly unassailable and is the standard by which mass-market sedans are judged.

The Tundra is on this same trajectory. The original T100, introduced back in 1992, was a fairly nondescript truck, and sold moderately well, mainly to Toyota loyalists . . . .

I fully expect the fourth generation Tundra, due 2012 or thereabouts, to become the best selling pickup truck in America.

The pattern is being relentlessly repeated. If a rerun of the Camry scenario is to be avoided GM needs to redouble its efforts in the full-size truck segment, and do so with a vengeance. NOW.

It is not just full-size pickups. We need to carefully watch the imminent second-generation Sequioa, too.

This is deadly serious.

[SUPERBADD75]

so yet more spin... they have to take the HDs out of the sales numbers to make a case for Toyota. this is just ridiculous, 3/4 and 1 ton trucks are part of the lineup, omitting them from the comparison doesn't mean they'e not being sold. Toyota's got a long way to go, and even if they do pass GMC, compared to Chevy, Ford, and Dodge that's still low volume. i wish they'd quit this BS of making Toyota look like heroes.

[t-rex]

My impression of the new Sierra — one of my best buds bought one a few months ago — is that it's a very refined, very well designed, and well built truck.

Having two divisions puts GM in the enviable position of being able to offer two trucks with radically different styling to appeal to different types of customers, but instead we've had 50 years of grille swapping. While there seems to be an attempt to make Silverado "sporty" and Sierra "rugged", the real result is two dull products with yesteryear styling.

Each has unique sheetmetal but somehow manage to still look almost exactly alike, and don't look like all-new products, but come across as reskins of their predecessors, which themselves were styling disappointments. I reckon I still think of GM from the "glamor truck" era of the 60s and 70s, when GM trucks had such advanced styling that they made Fords look old-fashioned and made Dodges look like some Soviet agricultural machinery.

GM surely couldn't have expected the fullsize truck and SUV bonanza to last forever, but apparently they did. Offering one or the other with more eye-catching styling might have helped keep interest in this segment alive. Dodge's success has proven that styling alone can sell a fullsize pickup.

[mpsrent]

Ignoring all the spin, the fact remains that the truck market was always sacred ground for the Big 3 American manufacturers. No matter what the imports did to car and SUV sales, they could not put a dent into the truck market. No, Toyota is not about to surpass GM truck sales, not even close. However, the fact that Toyota is starting to sell trucks at an acceptable level is a sign that the market is changing. Whereas the T100 and the old Tundra barely hit the sales charts, people are buying this new truck. The Big 3 will need to stay competitive or face market share errosion. The sacred ground days are gone.

[hotrod1949]

Originally Posted by camaro chris

Considering that the Sierra and Silverado are essentially the same truck, who really cares? GM is still blowing Toyota away in overall truck sales.

The general, mass media reading public cares. Make GMC a commercial truck division again, give Chevy all the light duty stuff, and advertise the hell out of their world domination!

[fastball]

Originally Posted by mpsrent

Ignoring all the spin, the fact remains that the truck market was always sacred ground for the Big 3 American manufacturers. No matter what the imports did to car and SUV sales, they could not put a dent into the truck market. No, Toyota is not about to surpass GM truck sales, not even close. However, the fact that Toyota is starting to sell trucks at an acceptable level is a sign that the market is changing. Whereas the T100 and the old Tundra barely hit the sales charts, people are buying this new truck. The Big 3 will need to stay competitive or face market share errosion. The sacred ground days are gone.

I don't think anyone is saying that by next week Toyota is going to own the truck market. But I do think the fact that Toyota now offers a competitive product and are selling it shows that in time, there will be another player in that specific market.

Remember, 25 years ago everyone was saying the Camry would never outsell an American sedan.

It won't happen overnight, but nonetheless I would not be surprised if it does happen. I am surprised by nothing these days.