Tundra Supplants Sierra As the #4 Half-Ton?

[rd66]

Originally Posted by Rob052067

Let's not forget that Toyota has been offering huge incentives on Tundras for months, while GM has been holding back - in effect giving up market share for better per-vehicle profit. Even with the overall slow down in truck sales this year due in part to the housing slump, the 60-month zero-percent financing GM just announced should move some metal.

I agree, however, Toyota said all along they will do whatever it takes to sell their Tundras. They have the money to win over a few domestic loyals early.

[Realist]

Originally Posted by Rob052067

Let's not forget that Toyota has been offering huge incentives on Tundras for months, while GM has been holding back - in effect giving up market share for better per-vehicle profit. Even with the overall slow down in truck sales this year due in part to the housing slump, the 60-month zero-percent financing GM just announced should move some metal.

We will see.

A lot of people were convinced GM's increased incentives for it's trucks in July would help "move the metal" but it didn't happen.

Also would like to point out most of those Tundra sales are trucks with the 5.7L engine. That engine will leave a mighty impression among the majority of Tundra buyers and anyone who test drives it.

[Realist]

Originally Posted by camaro chris

Considering that the Sierra and Silverado are essentially the same truck, who really cares? GM is still blowing Toyota away in overall truck sales.

Who cares? Maybe you don't, but let me tell you that GM definitely cares. The truck market is in a state of decline, and yet Tundra sales are increasing. Tacoma sales remain steady, so the excuse that Tacoma buyers are moving up to the Tundra doesn't fly. That means the increased Tundra sales are coming at the expense of Ford and GM. Dodge Ram sales have remained steady so far. Each truck sale GM or Ford loses to Toyota is a huge amount of profit lost. Right now trucks are GM's biggest profit makers, same thing with Ford, and Toyota is attacking the segment head-on.

RamJet502 has said it loud and clear. GM needs to walk the walk, not just talk the talk. All Wagoner and Lutz do is talk, talk, talk. Let's see some solid results GM. Let's see 6 speeds and the 6.2L engine available in ALL Silverado and Sierra variants.

[mystikranger]

It wont be long until the Tundra is #1.

[fenderbender]

If GM had some decent marketing this wouldn't be happening.

[Chevy2k5]

Originally Posted by fenderbender

If GM had some decent marketing this wouldn't be happening.

I agree that GM needs some better marketing. Toyota constantly attacks their competitors in commercials, GM needs to do it right back.

[Ming]

People have to realize that one thing that has been holding Toyota back has been power and size. If the number of new Tundras I've seen here in Houston is any sign, there were people waiting for what they consider a "big, bad truck", and it didn't matter that it was Toyota's.

Many of us made the mistake of thinking that Domestic Pickup truck loyalty was brand based, when in fact it was product. Nissan couldn't break through with its Titan (although it might have softened some folks up to a big Japanese pickup), but Toyota has sold so many Camrys and Corollas to so many Americans that they're less of an outsider "Import company" to the typical American family than you might think. And Domestic-like incentives have proven enough to push them over the top.

In fact, I've long warned of this, but GM losing the spot in Texans' driveways where the Lumina, Stratus, Taurus or Impala used to be (next to that Domestic Pickup or SUV) and having that replaced with the Camry was the foot in the door to the Texas truck buyers market. All they needed was a big, brutish-looking truck to get the other half of the driveway.

Why is it that the Silverado, Tahoe and Suburban got made over so extensively and with such effort while the Impala and Malibu were for so long fine "values" but hardly class-leading?

And does anyone really think that the new Malibu is going to truly surpass the offerings from Toyota and Honda? I don't doubt that it will match them from what I've seen, but I don't think it is an effort to do-or-die raise the bar like with GM's SUVs and Trucks. GM is getting there, but they still don't treat cars and trucks alike. Follow the money.

But what do I know. Midsize sedans aren't profitable enough to warrant GM's undivided attention, and when the product is good enough, like the Aura, the Advertising leaves a lot to be desired.

The problem is, Toyota has the funds and the desire to promote and engineer cars like the lowly Yaris to the same degree as any other Toyota car. Who wants to buy a car (especially smaller cars) from GM knowing that it is far down on their list of priorities? I don't.

I don't think this is the end of the world, but it is a wake up call to anyone in Detroit who thought the Japanese were doomed to fail again to crack the Domestic "loyalists" they'd pinned their hopes on.

[TJ95GAGT]

Is it just me or does the article say using projections AND assumptions? No one can say for sure what will happen, write about it when it happens. Does the Tundra not offer anything bigger than a half ton? If not is it really fair to break down GMC truck sales, of course their going to sell less, the have more options for the consumer. Also, wouldn't the Silverado be the volume truck like the Tundra is for Toyota? Why didn't he compare it to the Tundra? Because it wouldn't have yielded the results he was looking for? Seems like this writer had the result he wanted in mind and found the trucks to compare to get that result.

But honestly, hopefully it turns out to be true and gets GM to pay more attention to their cars. As for advertising, I see waaayyyyy more ads for GM trucks than I do cars.

[Bvonscott]

Originally Posted by Realist

We will see.

A lot of people were convinced GM's increased incentives for it's trucks in July would help "move the metal" but it didn't happen.

Also would like to point out most of those Tundra sales are trucks with the 5.7L engine. That engine will leave a mighty impression among the majority of Tundra buyers and anyone who test drives it.

Until either the camshaft breaks or they recall the engine. Toyota is many generations behind GM in the robustness and reliability of their V8 engines. You don't see any 880HP twin turbo toyota V8's made by aftermarket or any crate engines used all over the place, it's because people have known for years how good the small block is.

[TriShield]

Originally Posted by Bvonscott

Until either the camshaft breaks or they recall the engine. Toyota is many generations behind GM in the robustness and reliability of their V8 engines. You don't see any 880HP twin turbo toyota V8's made by aftermarket or any crate engines used all over the place, it's because people have known for years how good the small block is.

No they aren't. It was a fairly isolated incident and stemmed from a supplier. Had it happened to GM nobody here would have blamed them for it.

Like it or not, the new Tundra is the real deal. The more people that purchase them the more people are going to love them and spread the word of mouth. When that happens it is truly game over for the Big Three.

[asim]

Originally Posted by camaro chris

Considering that the Sierra and Silverado are essentially the same truck, who really cares? GM is still blowing Toyota away in overall truck sales.

I agree on that front, but this is still a moral war. This is a moral blow to GM, and GM should definitely fight back. But with 0% for 60 months on relatively new trucks, GM is fighting back hard.

[racy]

Originally Posted by roteague

If I was a Chevy dealer, I'd be pissed. GM needs to put its foot down, start blasting the Turda and let people know what a 2nd rate POS it is. In other words, put some teeth into its advertising.

The problem is, its not a second rate POS. Its a good truck. And yes, they are making conquest sales.

Chevy and GMC dealers have a hard time getting around the fact that their trucks don't offer 6 speed transmissions. That single question, unfortunately stops the sales pitch dead. It goes no further.

Like everyone else has said, GM needs to drop 6 speeds into their trucks and they need to get an advertising clue. GM has no one else to blame but themselves. If the Tundra was truly a bad truck, it wouldn't sell. Want proof? Look at the past Tundras. Toyota offered incentive after incentive on them. People weren't buying. The new Tunda is a different story. It has people's attention. I work with three Tundra converts: Two former GM and on Ford owner. They all have said hands down, the Tundra is a better truck. They didn't say it was a better deal. They say it is a better truck.

That should be getting GM's attention. But it won't. GM will squander, cut corners and deny themselves into oblivion. We're watching it happen. "Competetive" won't work anymore. GM has to build clear, class leading vehicles.

[CRBoyd91]

Originally Posted by racy

The problem is, its not a second rate POS. Its a good truck. And yes, they are making conquest sales.

Chevy and GMC dealers have a hard time getting around the fact that their trucks don't offer 6 speed transmissions. That single question, unfortunately stops the sales pitch dead. It goes no further.

Like everyone else has said, GM needs to drop 6 speeds into their trucks and they need to get an advertising clue. GM has no one else to blame but themselves. If the Tundra was truly a bad truck, it wouldn't sell. Want proof? Look at the past Tundras. Toyota offered incentive after incentive on them. People weren't buying. The new Tunda is a different story. It has people's attention. I work with three Tundra converts: Two former GM and on Ford owner. They all have said hands down, the Tundra is a better truck. They didn't say it was a better deal. They say it is a better truck.

That should be getting GM's attention. But it won't. GM will squander, cut corners and deny themselves into oblivion. We're watching it happen. "Competetive" won't work anymore. GM has to build clear, class leading vehicles.

I can't say you're too far off but it doesn't mean I agree with the Tundra being the better truck I know a few new Tundra buyers that feel that way about it.

[bcjohnso99]

The new Tundra is far from a POS but anyone who thinks that this is a real truck should watch this (and other videos from Ford that YouTube flags as related):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EWjTb...elated&search=

"wet noodle" would be a better description than "real truck".

Of course this is not a problem for people who pretend to need a truck.

[Realist]

Originally Posted by Bvonscott

Until either the camshaft breaks or they recall the engine. Toyota is many generations behind GM in the robustness and reliability of their V8 engines. You don't see any 880HP twin turbo toyota V8's made by aftermarket or any crate engines used all over the place, it's because people have known for years how good the small block is.

Oh don't be so ridiculous. Less than 30 engines have had the problem. You might not see a lot of high HP Toyota V8s, but you see A LOT of I6 twin turbo 1000+ HP Supras. Does that mean GM is WAY behind Toyota in I6 development? Give me a break. And what does the aftermarket even have to do with this? Toyota's 5.7L beats GM's 6.0L VortecMax in both power and emissions, with roughly the same fuel economy.

GM engines, including the small blocks, have had their fair share of problems.

Toyota builds some very good V8s, just look at all the old Lexus V8 powered cars out there on the road.

Like it or not, the new Tundra is the real deal. The more people that purchase them the more people are going to love them and spread the word of mouth. When that happens it is truly game over for the Big Three.

Exactly. Heck, Toyota haters can go on TV and shout from the rooftops about how bad the Tundra is, but the fact is more and more people are buying the Tundra, and the 5.7L engine is leaving a very good impression.

It's embarassing and downright humiliating to see GM and Ford lose their grip on the truck market, a market they've dominated for so long. I don't know if Ford or GM has gotten it through their heads yet as to just how serious the threat from Toyota is. They need to be in do-or-die mode and build class leading products, or not build anything at all.