Tundra Supplants Sierra As the #4 Half-Ton?

[ToyFanBoy]

Originally Posted by VMax2007
2nd post:

"Misconception: Speed/acceleration does NOT equal pulling power. If it did, 18 wheelers would be drag racing. The 5.4 is rated at pulling 11,000 lbs max (in RC, 4x2, long bed config)..MORE than Tundra in ANY config. Anyone who knows anything about trucks and towing know there is MORE to towing capacities than HP/Torque. It takes a complete truck. Ford F150 is a complete truck, less racing numbers."

Yep, more facts.....No name calling.


I always find this very interesting. When a company (any company) has an existing product that is upstage (in a least some area) by a newer competing product, they suddenly change their specifications to make their product look better? Strange… Any remote chance they decided to increase the tow rating with no other real modification or change in their product? Even a small chance? I didn’t think so. An auto manufacturer would never fudge the numbers strictly for marketing reasons!

But in the real world it seems the specification numbers may not support the testing facts. (also see “my vehicle is rated at 1 MPG better then yours, just don’t look at the real world numbers”) Anyone who has done even the slightest research of comparing the F150 to the 5.7 Wundra, knows the Wundra will out tow the F150 on any given day (twice on Sunday I think). The F150 is a complete truck? True, but when compared to virtually every other ½ ton on the market, it fails to excel.

Yep, no facts… Just questions and the opinions of multiple vehicle publications.

[plane]

Originally Posted by ToyFanBoy

Is this the beginning of history repeating itself, but in the truck market this time?

The fact that you are here, posting on this site, speaks volumes.
I think what you want to do is shout about the engine and tranny until our ears bleed. Because that's about all the Tundra has going for it.

It used to be panel gaps and interior, that's what we were all taught in Japanese cars 101 - Now that GM is whooping your ass in that department, the silence is deafening.

It used to be safety, I mean why would I want to allow my family to ride in an unsafe truck? Four stars? We're talking today, not 1982. Toyota has really dropped the ball in this area.

It used to be reliability. You can mouth the words all you want, but from real life experience, GM really does make the longest lasting, most reliable trucks on the road.

It really, crudely boils down to the following:

G.M. - Make the 6-speed standard and update the engine.
Toyota - Keep the engine and throw away the truck and start over.

[VMax2007]

Originally Posted by ToyFanBoy

I think what the big 3 may have concerns with, is that there is now a real 4th real choice in the 1/2 ton market. And it most likely isn't going to stop there (3/4 ton toy diesel?). I think if we had the web in the 70's/80's, we could have read a lot of similar forum comments about the “cars” back then - Toys and Honda POS, how they aren't made well, aren't up to the job, don't do it as well, have repair problems, are fugly etc.

Is this the beginning of history repeating itself, but in the truck market this time?

You're right, there is now a 5th choice (can't forget Nissan)....but only among 1/2 tons...Time will tell what choice people who use trucks for what trucks are meant to be used for will make. Not based on 0-60 times and new-to-market Hype. Yes, Tundra sales are killing 1st Gen Tundra sales from 2000-2006. But I'm guessing ALOT of these sales are being made to previous Tundra owners or Toyota fans who have been waiting for a true full-size and for "motorheads" who got hyped by the 381 HP engine. 2008 sales will be interesting to see, but I am guessing Tundra sales will level off. With Ford and Dodge coming out with new re-designs, Toyota will have it's hands full, and it will need to address the many weaknesses in the current Tundra, or it will suffer the same fate as the T100 and 1st Gen Tundra did.

The big difference between the car market from the late 70's- early 80's is (IMO) the domestic cars were inferior, but today's trucks are NOT (and never were). So, no I do not think you can assume history will repeat itself. I was not a big fan of domestic cars back in the 80's, so you would not have seen me posting stuff like that. But I also was not a fan of ricers either. That is probably why I went to Trucks, aside from the fact I got into boating and needed one.

[VMax2007]

Originally Posted by ToyFanBoy

I always find this very interesting. When a company (any company) has an existing product that is upstage (in a least some area) by a newer competing product, they suddenly change their specifications to make their product look better? Strange… Any remote chance they decided to increase the tow rating with no other real modification or change in their product? Even a small chance? I didn’t think so. An auto manufacturer would never fudge the numbers strictly for marketing reasons!

But in the real world it seems the specification numbers may not support the testing facts. (also see “my vehicle is rated at 1 MPG better then yours, just don’t look at the real world numbers”) Anyone who has done even the slightest research of comparing the F150 to the 5.7 Wundra, knows the Wundra will out tow the F150 on any given day (twice on Sunday I think). The F150 is a complete truck? True, but when compared to virtually every other ½ ton on the market, it fails to excel.

Yep, no facts… Just questions and the opinions of multiple vehicle publications.

And you don't think Toyota did the same thing? It's called "leapfrog" and you have to leap in order to be leaped.

[ToyFanBoy]

Originally Posted by plane
Toyota - Keep the engine and throw away the truck and start over.

that is funny, i actually lol

[ToyFanBoy]

Originally Posted by ToyFanBoy
Yes, Tundra sales are killing 1st Gen Tundra sales from 2000-2006. But I'm guessing ALOT of these sales are being made to previous Tundra owners or Toyota fans who have been waiting for a true full-size and for "motorheads" who got hyped by the 381 HP engine. 2008 sales will be interesting to see, but I am guessing Tundra sales will level off.

I think your right. I've bought a lot of vehicles, but I am mostly a *** buyer. I fit the bill of waiting for a full size toy. The rubber will really hit the road come 2008/2009 to see if Tundra sales are going to be a threat to the big 3, or just a 1st year jump because of a new product. I am actually thinking they will level off also. Boating, that is also what drew me into the tow vehicle arena.

[ToyFanBoy]

Originally Posted by VMax2007

And you don't think Toyota did the same thing? It's called "leapfrog" and you have to leap in order to be leaped.

No, not at all. Manufactures in every market fudge their numbers for marketing reasons. I just found it interesting that (while you were educating CaptianStu on the finer points of forum usage) you didn’t mention that the information was marketing numbers only, and it had been refuted in numerous real world tests. You know these things, you are well read in the area of trucks and all. I just found it strange, because in the ½ ton truck market, you couldn’t find two vehicles that had a larger discrepancy in real world towing conditions then the F150 towing compared to the 5.7 blundra. Your facts are not incorrect, they are absolutely true, the F150 is rated to tow something like 1.86% more.

[plane]

Originally Posted by ToyFanBoy

Originally Posted by plane
Toyota - Keep the engine and throw away the truck and start over.

that is funny, i actually lol

Well, to be fair, you *might* be able to salvage the radio buttons.

[VMax2007]

Originally Posted by plane

Well, to be fair, you *might* be able to salvage the radio buttons.

For what? Upgrading a "Little Tykes" toy car?