Tahoe and Yukon Hybrids: nearly $10,000 price premium

[HoeyHimself]

I say that if the consumer is SO very concerned about the environment, than they need not complain about the price..consider a smaller vehicle..or stfu. For every one else..driving a hybrid aint going to make a difference to your bank account..at least not anytime soon.

[DuSpinnst]

Originally Posted by mkaresh

The problem here is that a few people badly want to believe that the price difference is much smaller than it actually is, and they're doing their best to shoot the messenger.

Actually we aren't trying to shoot the messenger, just remind him that he isn't very logical.

[mkaresh]

Originally Posted by DuSpinnst

Actually we aren't trying to shoot the messenger, just remind him that he isn't very logical.

My wife will agree with that assessment, but for different reasons...

[plane]

Originally Posted by mkaresh

The specifics have from the start been clearly visible on my site. Every single number I used is there.

Originally Posted by edited_after_the_fact_by_mkaresh

And the actual premium is over $9,000: $9,240 at MSRP and $9,397 at invoice

Originally Posted by mkaresh

Instead, I'd suggest thinking of the results this way: "The difference between these is $10,000.

Originally Posted by mkaresh

Okay, it looks like the 4x4 does have a low range. Found an interior photo where the knob is visible So the adjusted price difference shrinks by $500.
Still nearly $9,500.

You are a liar.
You have zero credibility.
You have done everything in your power to try to justify an untenable position.
You're not even consistent in your own thread.

We've done the hard work.
We've proven you incorrect.

You've arrived at a GM fansite, made ludicrous anti-GM claims that have been repeatedly disproven and yet you persist.
You have had multiple opportunities to set the record straight, put forward an easily understood list for analysis and rebuttal, and you utterly failed to do so.

For that, for your duplicitous acts of mental midgetry and your proven prevarications, mkaresh, you win first entrance into the GMI Hall of Shame.

[mkaresh]

You've done shoddy incomplete work that has proven nothing. Not even once, much less repeatedly.

You pretend to speak for all of GMI, when you have no official position here. You speak for one person, yourself, that's it.

I have lied about absolutely nothing. I learned of one feature I'd left out, worth about five percent of the difference. Sorry, just not significant. Every automotive site on the Internet contains errors larger than this one. Doesn't make them all liars. It's called human error, in this case the result of unclear information on GM's sites.

During the course of this thread, GM increased the rebate on the regular Tahoe by $1,000. So you can add $1,000 to the $9XXX numbers you just posted. There is no inconsistency.

My claims are hardly anti-GM. It's a price difference, the result of a mathematical calculation based on a formula written over three years ago that favors no particular automaker.

I do not think it is possible for anyone to present a comprehensive list you are willing and able to understand. Whenever you cannot understand something, do you assume that it therefore isn't true?

Okay, maybe you do, but that's not a course I'd recommend.

Finally, I'm far from doing everything in my power. I refuse to join you in the gutter by resorting to baseless charges and name calling. The only reason I continue to participate at GMI is because I believe you actually represent a small minority here. If you were truly representative of this community, it would not be a community worth belonging to.

[plane]

Originally Posted by mkaresh

You've done shoddy incomplete work that has proven nothing. Not even once, much less repeatedly.

You pretend to speak for all of GMI, when you have no official position here. You speak for one person, yourself, that's it.

I have lied about absolutely nothing. I learned of one feature I'd left out, worth about five percent of the difference. Sorry, just not significant. Every automotive site on the Internet contains errors larger than this one. Doesn't make them all liars. It's called human error, in this case the result of unclear information on GM's sites.

During the course of this thread, GM increased the rebate on the regular Tahoe by $1,000. So you can add $1,000 to the $9XXX numbers you just posted. There is no inconsistency.

My claims are hardly anti-GM. It's a price difference, the result of a mathematical calculation based on a formula written over three years ago that favors no particular automaker.

I do not think it is possible for anyone to present a comprehensive list you are willing and able to understand. Whenever you cannot understand something, do you assume that it therefore isn't true?

Okay, maybe you do, but that's not a course I'd recommend.

Finally, I'm far from doing everything in my power. I refuse to join you in the gutter by resorting to baseless charges and name calling. The only reason I continue to participate at GMI is because I believe you actually represent a small minority here. If you were truly representative of this community, it would not be a community worth belonging to.

You had the chance to move forward with truth and honesty.
You chose prevarication.
You chose untruth.

I opened up a separate thread,
Several GMI members contributed.
We walked through this in a completely understandable, traceable manner.
Something that you have been challenged to do several times.

And this is your response?

Each time all that you can offer is plaintive pleas.
No proof.
Here you sit in the corner, stuck trying to defend an untenable position.

You represent the absolute worst that GMI has to offer.
Read your own posts.
Your narcissism and self-congratulatory posts are beyond belief.
And your substantiation of your dubious claims is nil.
Your credibility is now nil.

Thanks for playing.
Go back to your corner.
You lose.

[mkaresh]

I've seen your other thread. I saw no point in extending this debate to another thread, so I haven't posted in it. But the work there contains errors and is far from complete. For example, the 3LTs seat adjustments are not part of your calculations.

My site contains a complete formatted table that, line by line, demonstrates the figures used in the calculation. Should be clear to anyone half as smart as you pretend to be.

You're the champion of truth, honesty, and selflessness? Man, that's rich.

You're all trash talk. Little more than noise. Sure, I have no credibility with you. So what? With you, credibility is a matter of whether what I say fits what you want to believe. Not worth having.

[plane]

Originally Posted by mkaresh

I've seen your other thread. I saw no point in extending this debate to another thread, so I haven't posted in it. But the work there contains errors and is far from complete. For example, the 3LTs seat adjustments are not part of your calculations.

My site contains a complete formatted table that, line by line, demonstrates the figures used in the calculation. Should be clear to anyone half as smart as you pretend to be.

You're the champion of truth, honesty, and selflessness? Man, that's rich.

Yes, as a matter of fact, I do stand for truth and honesty.
Anyone who has spent more than five minutes on this site knows that.

Now as far as the seat adjustment? I'm glad you are able to read my posts. That mention in this context is particularly slimy of you.

Either put up or shut up.
You claim errors and inaccuracies and a lack of completeness.
Bring it on.
Lay it out in detail.
Prove the $10,000 difference.
Or go sit in the corner.

[mkaresh]

It's been laid out in detail the whole time. The reason I wrote the program in the first place was to enable quick, consistent, reasonably complete comparisons. If I wanted to do all that work by hand, I wouldn't have written the program. Back when I used to do such calculations by hand, I'd always forget this or that on the first pass or three. It was an exercise in frustration, and never yielded results of a similar quality.

Your other thread proves my point. People have put a ton of time into it, and it's still less complete and less correct than the results yielded by my site in seconds.

What I can do, and probably should have done earlier, is clearly specify the steps needed to duplicate the results on my site.

Go here: http://www.truedelta.com/prices.php

1. Select Chevrolet 2008 for both vehicles.

2. Select Tahoe / Suburban for both vehicles.

3a. Select 5.3 4WD for one vehicle, and 6.0 hybrid 4WD for the other.

3b. At the bottom of the page, select the maximize function and include rebates. The latter is the default, and the former is what I use to generate all of the site's static comparisons. Neither was selected just in this instance to make the numbers turn out a certain way.

This will yield a page of results with all of the numbers used in the calculations. As noted earlier, the calculations do not include the engines, wheel sizes, or materials used for the hood and such.

No doubt this won't be sufficient for you. But it should work for anyone truly interested in the price difference between the regular Tahoe and the hybrid.

"Truth" and "honesty" as you employ the words are just more trash talk.

[jtrav91]

Originally Posted by plane

Either put up or shut up.

Remember that there isn't any consumer real-world data available yet.