Tahoe and Yukon Hybrids: nearly $10,000 price premium

[mkaresh]

Ever since I learned the details of GM’s “dual mode” hybrid system, I’ve wondered what they’re going to charge for it. The system is more advanced and generally superior to those offered by anyone else right now, including Toyota. The fuel economy benefits are clear: with this system, fuel economy increases by about 50 percent in city driving and 10 percent in highway driving. But it’s also considerably more complex. And complexity costs money.

So, maybe they’d have to charge roughly double what Toyota has been charging. With the Toyota Camry, the Hybrid costs about $2,000 more than the regular four-cylinder Camry when both are comparably equipped. So perhaps $5,000 extra for GM’s more sophisticated system?

Well, I’ve now added the pricing for the Chevrolet Tahoe Hybrid and the GMC Yukon Hybrid to TrueDelta’s database. And the actual premium is over $9,000: $9,240 at MSRP and $9,397 at invoice. (Note: I originally said "nearly $10,000" because the information I was using suggested that the Hybrid 4WD lacked a low range; this was incorrect.)

Article continues here: http://www.truedelta.com/blog/?p=200

Update: GM just added $1000 bonus cash to the Tahoe, so the premium for the Hybrid is now over $10,000.

[jkennedy293]

GM should be able to get the costs down once the Vue Two-Mode, and assumably the Lambda Two-Modes appear.

The system should should also be more effective once the Volt's LI-Ion batteries are used. We could see 23-24MPG in city driving from the Tahoe, and 26-27MPG city from the Vue.

[Buick61]

We knew this already. It's been discussed plenty here.

[mkaresh]

Why would higher capacity batteries have that large an impact on fuel economy? Maybe there's something I just don't know here. But I assume that the current batteries have enough capacity to handle most driving situations. Better batteries would have either a marginal impact on the amount of energy that could be recaptured or cut the curb weight a bit. Cutting curb weight by even a couple hundred pounds won't have a substantial impact on fuel economy.

I really don't get why they're pricing the GMT900 hybrids so high.

[DuSpinnst]

Are you comparing the price of the Hybrid to at least a 3LT or LTZ? Because if not, you aren't accounting for the extra standard equipment.

Comparing it to the base is ludicrous.

[jkennedy293]

Originally Posted by mkaresh

Why would higher capacity batteries have that large an impact on fuel economy? Maybe there's something I just don't know here. But I assume that the current batteries have enough capacity to handle most driving situations. Better batteries would have either a marginal impact on the amount of energy that could be recaptured or cut the curb weight a bit. Cutting curb weight by even a couple hundred pounds won't have a substantial impact on fuel economy.

I really don't get why they're pricing the GMT900 hybrids so high.

The Li-Ion batteries not only provide more power, but also last longer.

If GM decides to keep the same number of cells, the vehicle will operate in Electric-only and Electric-assist modes longer, thus increasing fuel economy.

If GM decides to use less cells for the same power, then they will be able to cut a few hundred pounds off the curb weight, thus increasing fuel economy.

[gregorypeter]

What is the criteria for this price increase?

It is important to remember all of the standard equipment that comes with these Hybrids, in additional to the fact that they are loaded with the 6.0 motor instead of the cheaper 5.3.

Regardless of the price increase, GM has made it clear they are not trying to cut deals on the hybrids. There is a lot of cost that GM has to eat in the first place so a large price hike has been expected all along. The first people who buy these are going to be the ones who are buying them for the image.

Comparing the price increases to the Toyota system is apples and oranges. Yes, they are both hybrids, but they are for two different purposes, and GM has a much more complex (and expensive) system.

[jeep2c]

Also remember, GM is eating a portion of the cost in order to market them.

Who was it in the thread a week or so ago that denied there was $10k in cost added to a vehicle to incoorporate the 2-mode?

If anything, this proves that the number is closer to $12-15k since they have openly stated they are eating a portion of the cost in order to get them into the marketplace.

[MelvinJ]

I can't get to your website. Is it down?

[mkaresh]

Originally Posted by MelvinJ

I can't get to your website. Is it down?

Thanks for the heads-up. This hasn't happened in weeks, not since I changed some default settings used by my used to be good but now incredibly bad host. Restarted now.

I'll be getting a new host in a few months. Can't wait.

[mkaresh]

Originally Posted by DuSpinnst

Are you comparing the price of the Hybrid to at least a 3LT or LTZ? Because if not, you aren't accounting for the extra standard equipment.

Comparing it to the base is ludicrous.

This comparing a 3LT with third-row three-person bench, limited-slip diff, Sun, Entertainment, and Destinations, 4WD, and block heater to a Hybrid with sunroof, entertainment system, and block heater. This is what the program puts out when you request a comparison with all features available on both vehicles.

The comparison is just to the 5.3. I don't think you can get the 6.0 in the regular Tahoe, only in the Suburban. Also, the Hybrid weighs more. Is it much quicker? Do many people find the 5.3 inadequate? At any rate, I don't adjust for engine size in the comparisons, because there's no clear way to do this.

[Buick61]

Originally Posted by mkaresh

Ever since I learned the details of GM’s “dual mode” hybrid system, I’ve wondered what they’re going to charge for it.

Well, I’ve now added the pricing for the Chevrolet Tahoe Hybrid and the GMC Yukon Hybrid to TrueDelta’s database. And the actual premium is nearly $10,000: $9,600 at MSRP and $9,847 at invoice.

Article continues here: http://www.truedelta.com/blog/?p=200

Originally Posted by Buick61

We knew this already. It's been discussed plenty here.

I knew I'd find the thread (thanks to Google)

GM 2-Mode Hybrid System Cost Estimated @ $10,000; May Force GM To Subsidize Sales

The automaker plans to have at least three hybrid transmissions and offer as many as a dozen hybrid models in the next few years. The Two Mode system, which has two electric motors that assist the engine, would be the premium system, Lutz said.

The cost of that system is more than $10,000, sources close to the program say.

[mkaresh]

Thanks for the link.

That thread was about the cost to GM. This is the price to consumers. Not quite the same thing.

A number of the comparisons in that thread were between a stripped base conventional vehicle and a relatively loaded up hybrid. The value of my site's unique price comparison tool is that it adjusts for feature differences (though, as pointed out above, not for engines, bodystyle, and other things that aren't commensurable across different cars).

I thought GM might charge $5,000 more for this system, maybe even $6,000. They had said they might have to eat the cost. At $10,000, I certainly hope they're not eating too much of the cost. Either way, this strikes me as way too steep.

This was a collaboration with Daimler and BMW. Those companies aren't used to focusing on cost when engineering things. That might have had an impact on the cost of this system.

[SuperSS27]

Originally Posted by mkaresh

This comparing a 3LT with third-row three-person bench, limited-slip diff, Sun, Entertainment, and Destinations, 4WD, and block heater to a Hybrid with sunroof, entertainment system, and block heater. This is what the program puts out when you request a comparison with all features available on both vehicles.

The comparison is just to the 5.3. I don't think you can get the 6.0 in the regular Tahoe, only in the Suburban. Also, the Hybrid weighs more. Is it much quicker? Do many people find the 5.3 inadequate? At any rate, I don't adjust for engine size in the comparisons, because there's no clear way to do this.

Yup...seems pretty apple and oranges to me. Subtract about 2k for the 6.0L motor alone, and its a little less apples and oranges.

[FStephenMasek]

So much for any savings. At those prices, it will only sell to the same crowd which buys a prius just to show off.