Report: New GM Diesel Will Be 4.5 Liters; MY10 Pickups To Get Engine

[Z06ified]

Is this the engine that was being tested in the GMT360(cant think of the specific model) around a year ago?

Yeah, it's the same engine - it was tested in a Buick Raineir with a bulge in the side. Basically designed to be the same footprint as the LS-series V-8 gas engine, so it can fit into any current RWD GM vehicle that has a gas V-8 engine option, although initially it will only be the full size pickups and SUV's.

It will be substantially less expensive of an option than the Duramax, particularly since it will use GM's own 6L90E transmission, and not the expensive Allison transmission. My guess would be a $2k-$4k premium over a gas model. Virtually all of the premium will be recovered on resale value, like most diesels.

I'm glad Tonowanda plant is getting the work. It's a great plant, and that part of NY can use all the manufacturing jobs it can get - it's really been a depressed area for the last 2 decades in terms of manufacturing jobs. Plus, this same plant made my 1970 454 big block that I used to own. Any plant that made big blocks with an Indian name is cool by me.

Based on this timeline, I plan to replace my 1999 Suburban diesel in 5 years, in 2012. There's no way I'll buy a first model year of a new engine like this, so this will give them 3 years to work the bugs out. Plus, my Suburban has only 160k on it now, so it won't be ready to be retired for at least another 5 years anyway. It's just getting broken in!

It would be great if they offered the diesel in the Cadillac SUV's too. I would love to buy a 2012 Cadillac Escalade ESV or EXT with a diesel - that would be perfect for me! If not, a fully loaded 2012 Suburban diesel will do just fine for me too.

[MelvinJ]

Originally Posted by jbartley

could this be paired with GM's new two-mode hybrid system?

It probably could, but with the two-mode price tag probably at the very least $3k, and another $4-5k for the diesel premium, you are talking about a pretty hefty price tag to save fuel in a half ton truck. I wouldn't think it would have many takers.

[MelvinJ]

Originally Posted by Z06ified

It will be substantially less expensive of an option than the Duramax, particularly since it will use GM's own 4L90E transmission, and not the expensive Allison transmission. My guess would be a $2k-$4k premium over a gas model. Virtually all of the premium will be recovered on resale value, like most diesels.

I know you meant 6L90E rather than 4L90E, but I thought I'd mention it before somebody jumps in with "They're using a 4-speed automatic with it?? Stupid GM!"

[Ming]

Originally Posted by GMusa

Along with hybrids! The only thing left... hydrogen!

Get one for each foot! "Skate" to work!



http://www.kitsusa.net/phpstore/html...l-Car-Kit.html

[F14CRAZY]

Woudn't GM be better off buying a diesel engine from someone else? Doesn't like Isuzu already have an engine that would work?

Heh how about a John Deere diesel? Or a Caterpilar?

[Z06ified]

Is this a 6 or 8 cyl?

It's a V-8. I'm pretty sure it will be a pushrod 4 valve per cylinder (like the Duramax) in order to keep the footprint small. Only other details I know of it are it'll have common-rail fuel injection like the Duramax, CGI (compacted graphite iron) block, single or twin intercooled turbos (probably single to keep the size and cost down), will bolt-up to gas V-8 engine mounts and the GM 6L90E transmission, horsepower around 300 with at least 550 ft. lbs of torque. It's supposed to meet the new EPA Bin 5 emissions standards too, probably requiring urea injection however. Initial reports of test mules say that the engine is very quite and smooth - difficult to tell you're driving a diesel.

[Z06ified]

Originally Posted by MelvinJ

I know you meant 6L90E rather than 4L90E, but I thought I'd mention it before somebody jumps in with "They're using a 4-speed automatic with it?? Stupid GM!"

Thank you - yes, that's what I meant - I'll go edit my post.

[Z06ified]

Originally Posted by MelvinJ

It probably could, but with the two-mode price tag probably at the very least $3k, and another $4-5k for the diesel premium, you are talking about a pretty hefty price tag to save fuel in a half ton truck. I wouldn't think it would have many takers.

True. The other problem with the 2-mode hybrid is I don't think the current version of the transmission can handle the torque output of this diesel. The only GM transmission that can handle the torque right now is the 6L90E.

Doesn't mean it can't be done though - the 2 mode hybrid transmission design is used in full size GM municipal buses, and those things have diesel engines with far more torque than this 4.5L unit can put out.

[Z06ified]

Originally Posted by F14CRAZY

Woudn't GM be better off buying a diesel engine from someone else? Doesn't like Isuzu already have an engine that would work?

Heh how about a John Deere diesel? Or a Caterpilar?

Isuzu is a good question. I know they have a diesel V-6 engine that is used around the world (except North America) in a variety of applications. It's not a Duramax, but it has a similar design. It's not made by the Dmax GM/Isuzu joint venture though - it's produced soley by Isuzu in Japan. It may not be able to meet the emissions and noise standards that GM wants though.

John Deere and Caterpillar aren't interested in light duty highway vehicle diesel engines. These generally have the highest volumes, but the lowest profit margins, and the most headaches. Just ask Navistar/International, Detroit Diesel, and Cummins. So they focus on heavy duty truck engines, and off-highway large diesel engines. Lower volumes, but much better profit margins.

Detroit Diesel already exited the light duty highway diesel engine market in 2000 (my '99 Suburban has the last of this product, the 6.5L turbo diesel). Navistar will exit this market too when it ends it's deal with Ford in the next few years, IMO. Cummins will probably stay in it with Dodge, as they've managed to be profitable in this market and built a good engine (the 6B) with few problems.

It's interesting that GM is designing and building this diesel engine themselves this time. Over the last 2 decades, GM has always partenered up with a diesel expert for their diesel engines. The 6.2L and 6.5L GM diesels of the 1980's and 1990's were Detroit Diesel designs, and of course the 2000+ Duramax is a joint venture design with Isuzu. I'm sure GM is leveraging off their in-house diesel engineers in Europe for this though, as they do make quite a few diesels themselves in Europe, and applying what they've learned from the Dmax as well.

I would love to buy a GM full size SUV with a Caterpillar in it - that would be awesome. Probably never going to happen though.

[MelvinJ]

Originally Posted by Z06ified

True. The other problem with the 2-mode hybrid is I don't think the current version of the transmission can handle the torque output of this diesel. The only GM transmission that can handle the torque right now is the 6L90E.

Doesn't mean it can't be done though - the 2 mode hybrid transmission design is used in full size GM municipal buses, and those things have diesel engines with far more torque than this 4.5L unit can put out.

I imagine you are right. If the 4.5L puts out proportionately the same amount of torque as the 6.6L, it will be around 480 lb.ft. I'm sure they didn't design the two-mode transmission to handle that much torque.

[motorman]

it will be interesting to see if buyers are willing to pay the extra $3/4K or more for a diesel. it takes a long time to make up the savings in fuel if you only drive 12K/15 K miles a year.

[titanguy]

I think this is great news but I have a feeling that another manufacturer will beat them to the punch. It will be interesting to see how the competition approaches this. I had heard rumors that Dodge was going to be the first into the half ton diesel arena? Does anyone know?
Screw gas mileage can you imagine one of these half ton diesels once Gale Banks gets his hands on it?

[Michael_S]

Originally Posted by jckjds

Is this a 6 or 8 cyl? Honestly, this engine is clearly designed to be the fuel economy leader, so I was hoping for a bit smaller engine in a 6 cyl configuration. (I mean, GM already has very powerful gas and diesel engines, so the purpose of this engine is clearly to provide excellent fuel economy whil providing sufficient power for normal truck use, right?)

Given that, I would have preferred that this engine be more in the 3.8-4.0l range. With an engine of that size, GM should have easily been able to extract 200+ hp and 300-350 lb ft of torque, which is more than enough for the average truck buyer and, more importantly, just right for the truck buyer who wants/needs to get better fuel economy.

Oh well, I'm sure this will be designed to get excellent fuel economy -- so here's to hoping. I think fuel economy averaging in the mid 20's in mixed driving would be very respectable.

The Mercedes BlueTec turbodiesel in the E-class displaces 3.0 liters (despite the "E320" model name) and makes 204 horsepower and 388 pound feet of torque. If GM's V8 can do as well, then 3.3 or 3.5 liters for a turbodiesel would be plenty for a half ton owner that wanted good fuel economy without sacrificing any towing power.

[tmk50]

300 hp and 525ft-lb or more is what I am hoping for - (original LB7 #s I think) - anything over 22 or 23 mpgs unloaded will sell very well - hoping that if this is in a heavy half ton it will get 25.

I can get 20 or so in the summer with my 02 Dmax - so in a lighter truck and 8 years of newer tech with smaller displacement - hopefully they can beat that by 5mpg.

tk

[383_torque]

It is not just the 4.5, where are all the other small block diesels? Where are the 4 and 6 cylinder diesels. While this is good news that one small block diesel will now be available in a 1/2 ton truck, we need more diesel options YESTERDAY!!!