Inside Line tests Tahoe Hybrid

[ctsmo]

http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do...topanel..1.*#2

sorry if repost.

[PhishPhood]

Summary: It looks and feels like any other Tahoe. No compromises of note.

However Edmunds ( along with everyone else ) continues to make the same mistakes in every analysis of this type when they estimate that it will take 15 yrs to recoup the extra price.

The whole concept is faulty because they consider that the price of fuel will remain the same until the end of time. It simply is wrong. If this is such a critical measuring metric then fuel costs have to be estimated a lot better than their current method.

In addition they should have done the analysis the way any small business would do it. Forecast some inflationary factor for fuel then add the cost of the vehicle to the cost of the fuel for both a the 2-Mode and a non-hybrid then compare the costs. The one that costs less is the better buy. Depending on the owner a potential resale value might have to be factored in as well. None of this is done.

[supraracer]

They tested it mostly on the highway and was surprised at the modest fuel economy gains?

[zeobandit]

It may not take 15 years to recoup the loss, but it will take a long time. My wife and I went to our local Chevy dealer on Moday with intention on ordering a hybrid Tahoe. We had speced out what we wanted, and test drove a regular Tahoe over the weekend to make sure we liked it. When it came down to price negotiating, the dealer would not budge off of the sticker price ($54,900), which did not suprise me too much, and none of the rebates included the hybrids. However, I came armed with my company's GM supplier discount as a backup plan. They would not take that either. It was sticker price or bust.

They had a fully loaded LTZ Tahoe on the lot that the wife and I also liked. Once we found out that they wouldn't budge on the Hybrid, we started talking price on the LTZ. The sticker was also right at $55,000. By the time we negotiated price, and included the $1000 GM Loyalty rebate, and $2000 cash back, and my $1500 in GM Card earnings, we ended up paying just under $45000. That is a $10,000 price difference ($8500 assuming they would of taken my GM Card earnings on the hybrid) for a vehicle that gets about 35% better fuel economy (according to the EPA estimate) in the city. It would take a LONG time to recoup that money before the hyrid became beneficial to our budget. That doesn't even factor in costs of maintaining the hybrid powertrain if/when it would be necessary.

Long story short, we walked in to order a Hybrid Tahoe, and we walked out the proud owners of a Tahoe LTZ.

[chakis24]

stupid. and somehow they get less than everybody else? how about testing in town only? where the hybrid really shines.

[GMforME]

Why does no one ever talk about the government subsidized Tax write off you get in the overall recoup costs.

[MelvinJ]

Originally Posted by supraracer

They tested it mostly on the highway and was surprised at the modest fuel economy gains?

Exactly. If all you were going to do is drive on the highway, I'd recommend against getting the Hybrid too. That was supposed to be a 10% gain, according to GM, and Edmunds spends 60% of their test in that mode.

Jeez how I wish SOMEONE out there would do some nose-to-tail economy testing of a regular Tahoe and a Tahoe Hybrid. Run them through a city course together, same time, same speeds, a mixed course, and then an all-highway course, recording the mileage for each segment. Then, armed with the real-world difference of mileage between the two for different driving conditions and the knowledge of how they typically drive, people could make an actual informed judgement on whether the Hybrid is worth it for them. None of this "well I get 22-23 with my regular Suburban, so the Hybrid would have to get 30 or it sucks" crap. I drive a Suburban (5.3L, no AFM), and I know what it would take to get 22 mpg with it (50 mph steady state, no wind (or tailwind), no A/C, no load, and probably several other things in its favor. Drive a Tahoe Hybrid in these conditions and it might get close to 30. But highway mileage isn't the point, even of the Two-Modes.

Car and Driver did this kind of testing a few years ago, although I can't remember what vehicles it was with. The best we are probably going to do is Consumer Reports, who at least have consistent test loops they run, with an all-city, all-highway, and all-around average mileage set of test numbers coming out of it. They've tested an '07 Tahoe, and I'm anxious to see how the Tahoe Hybrid will do. Hopefully it won't disappoint like the Jeep Liberty CRD did.

[Hurricane]

Originally Posted by zeobandit

It may not take 15 years to recoup the loss, but it will take a long time. My wife and I went to our local Chevy dealer on Moday with intention on ordering a hybrid Tahoe. We had speced out what we wanted, and test drove a regular Tahoe over the weekend to make sure we liked it. When it came down to price negotiating, the dealer would not budge off of the sticker price ($54,900), which did not suprise me too much, and none of the rebates included the hybrids. However, I came armed with my company's GM supplier discount as a backup plan. They would not take that either. It was sticker price or bust.

They had a fully loaded LTZ Tahoe on the lot that the wife and I also liked. Once we found out that they wouldn't budge on the Hybrid, we started talking price on the LTZ. The sticker was also right at $55,000. By the time we negotiated price, and included the $1000 GM Loyalty rebate, and $2000 cash back, and my $1500 in GM Card earnings, we ended up paying just under $45000. That is a $10,000 price difference ($8500 assuming they would of taken my GM Card earnings on the hybrid) for a vehicle that gets about 35% better fuel economy (according to the EPA estimate) in the city. It would take a LONG time to recoup that money before the hyrid became beneficial to our budget. That doesn't even factor in costs of maintaining the hybrid powertrain if/when it would be necessary.

Long story short, we walked in to order a Hybrid Tahoe, and we walked out the proud owners of a Tahoe LTZ.

Congrats on your Tahoe LTZ! You will love it!!!

Did you get a chance to test drive the hybrid version? How was it?

[MelvinJ]

Originally Posted by zeobandit

It may not take 15 years to recoup the loss, but it will take a long time. My wife and I went to our local Chevy dealer on Moday with intention on ordering a hybrid Tahoe. We had speced out what we wanted, and test drove a regular Tahoe over the weekend to make sure we liked it. When it came down to price negotiating, the dealer would not budge off of the sticker price ($54,900), which did not suprise me too much, and none of the rebates included the hybrids. However, I came armed with my company's GM supplier discount as a backup plan. They would not take that either. It was sticker price or bust.

They had a fully loaded LTZ Tahoe on the lot that the wife and I also liked. Once we found out that they wouldn't budge on the Hybrid, we started talking price on the LTZ. The sticker was also right at $55,000. By the time we negotiated price, and included the $1000 GM Loyalty rebate, and $2000 cash back, and my $1500 in GM Card earnings, we ended up paying just under $45000. That is a $10,000 price difference ($8500 assuming they would of taken my GM Card earnings on the hybrid) for a vehicle that gets about 35% better fuel economy (according to the EPA estimate) in the city. It would take a LONG time to recoup that money before the hyrid became beneficial to our budget. That doesn't even factor in costs of maintaining the hybrid powertrain if/when it would be necessary.

Long story short, we walked in to order a Hybrid Tahoe, and we walked out the proud owners of a Tahoe LTZ.

Sorry to hear the Hybrid deal didn't work out for you. The limited production numbers and odd distribution are probably going to give dealers a false sense of what they are worth in the market so early in the game. I don't think the sticker prices are out of wack considering what you get, but refusing a Supplier Discount or any sort of discount off sticker, and considering that the rebates don't apply to the Hybrid puts it in a very tough spot. But it's probably only temporary. If they don't sell like that, GM will apply rebates, and dealers will deal at less than sticker until it strikes a chord with enough buyers. Right now, it's an all new market (full-size SUV hybrid) for everyone, and nobody knows just what they're really worth. It's not a simple gas-savings minus hybrid-premium = whether-or-not-to-buy equation for many hybrid buyers.

Each person that thinks they might be interested needs to check into this at their dealer, because things change. The last thing we need are internet pundents splashing headlines that indicate the Tahoe Hybrid will never be worth the money.

P.S. Congrats on the new LTZ!

[b4z]

tahoe hybrid will not get 30mpg at 50-55 mph.

[Olds88]

Originally Posted by MelvinJ

Jeez how I wish SOMEONE out there would do some nose-to-tail economy testing of a regular Tahoe and a Tahoe Hybrid. Run them through a city course together, same time, same speeds, a mixed course, and then an all-highway course, recording the mileage for each segment. Then, armed with the real-world difference of mileage between the two for different driving conditions and the knowledge of how they typically drive, people could make an actual informed judgement on whether the Hybrid is worth it for them. None of this "well I get 22-23 with my regular Suburban, so the Hybrid would have to get 30 or it sucks" crap. I drive a Suburban (5.3L, no AFM), and I know what it would take to get 22 mpg with it (50 mph steady state, no wind (or tailwind), no A/C, no load, and probably several other things in its favor. Drive a Tahoe Hybrid in these conditions and it might get close to 30. But highway mileage isn't the point, even of the Two-Modes.

Uh its entirely possible to achieve 22mpg in a Suburban @63-65mph. AFM does make a difference. My Avalanche routinely returns 21-23 cruising at those speeds. If you want proof, I can record a time lapsed video of my drive to work and throw it up on youtube. If the hybrid added 1-2mpg I'd be perfectly satisfied. The highway mileage is already good enough, its the city that needs bolstering.

[mcool]

Originally Posted by zeobandit

It may not take 15 years to recoup the loss, but it will take a long time. My wife and I went to our local Chevy dealer on Moday with intention on ordering a hybrid Tahoe. We had speced out what we wanted, and test drove a regular Tahoe over the weekend to make sure we liked it. When it came down to price negotiating, the dealer would not budge off of the sticker price ($54,900), which did not suprise me too much, and none of the rebates included the hybrids. However, I came armed with my company's GM supplier discount as a backup plan. They would not take that either. It was sticker price or bust.

They had a fully loaded LTZ Tahoe on the lot that the wife and I also liked. Once we found out that they wouldn't budge on the Hybrid, we started talking price on the LTZ. The sticker was also right at $55,000. By the time we negotiated price, and included the $1000 GM Loyalty rebate, and $2000 cash back, and my $1500 in GM Card earnings, we ended up paying just under $45000. That is a $10,000 price difference ($8500 assuming they would of taken my GM Card earnings on the hybrid) for a vehicle that gets about 35% better fuel economy (according to the EPA estimate) in the city. It would take a LONG time to recoup that money before the hyrid became beneficial to our budget. That doesn't even factor in costs of maintaining the hybrid powertrain if/when it would be necessary.

Long story short, we walked in to order a Hybrid Tahoe, and we walked out the proud owners of a Tahoe LTZ.

The halo vehicle effect strikes again. Congrats on the new Tahoe, it's a great vehicle.

[MelvinJ]

Originally Posted by b4z

tahoe hybrid will not get 30mpg at 50-55 mph.

(I'm assuming this was a reponse to my post.)

Well, this guy (a Ford Escape Hybrid driver) got around 30 mpg with the Tahoe Hybrid on a mixed loop of 50/50 city/highway. Maybe it was getting less than 30 on the highway and more in the city. Most of the guys on the hybrid discussion boards look very skeptically at the large Two-Modes (he admits this), but he got 30 mpg where he is able to get 40 with his FEH. Extreme case? Absofreakinlutly. But when people say they get 23 with a regular Suburban (and somebody was recently), we are talking either a miscalculation (very, very likely), or extreme economy driving.

And I only said close to 30.


http://www.greenhybrid.com/discuss/f...s-paces-16625/

[1487]

folks, the real story in the article is that they claim there is a $9100 price difference between the hybrid and the regular version and this is a flat out lie. I emailed them at editor.insideline@edmunds.com to let them know. The article is based on a false premise. The actual price difference is about $6500 if you compare it to a Tahoe LT3 with rear DVD package and navigation. How come these guys cant do basic research? they tried to make the Tahoe Hybrid seem like a rip off when the price differential is very similar to that of the Highlander Hybrid.

[PhishPhood]

Originally Posted by chakis24

stupid. and somehow they get less than everybody else? how about testing in town only? where the hybrid really shines.

Actually I found it pretty close the the new EPA values of 20/21. Considdering that they did some track testing at flat out accelerations and slaloms and braking tests I don't find that values that low.

Now in the hands of an experienced hybrid driver like the previous report I posted it's capable of upwards of 30 mpg. The GM engineer that gave the vehicle to the GH member noted that he was getting right around 20 mpg on average.