GMT-900 Pickups: The X-Factor and Close

[Ghrankenstein]

The X-Factor: The Toyota Tundra

With the early advent of the GMT-900 pickups, Toyota has been extremely secretive about its next Tundra. It’s possible that the Tundra has been delayed for last-minute re-engineering to improve power, fuel economy, interiors, quality control, or value (cost-cutting). What we know at the moment is that will be a true half-ton truck, that it will look like a Toyota, and that it will be available in three cab sizes and three bed lengths.

The engines will be the 4.0L V-6, 4.7L I-Force V-8, and the new 5.7L I-Force. The 240 hp V-6 will probably be rated in the 245-255 lb-ft range for torque. Toyota will have to tweak the engine, the gearing, or both if it will be competitive with the Vortec 4300 (195 hp, 260 lb-ft) in gas mileage. Likewise, despite Toyota’s advertisements suggesting otherwise, the current 4.7L I-Force is not competitive with GM’s V-8’s in fuel economy. Don’t be surprised if a cylinder shutoff feature is offered on the Tundra.

Toyota will be selling this truck on the strength of its reputation, and on a few key numbers. I suspect that the 4.7 will be re-tuned to offer 300-320 hp, with the 5.7 offering in the 350-375 hp range. I’m not sure if they’ll be able to match GM’s fuel economy, but they’ll definitely be engineered to top Ford, Dodge, and Nissan. I have no guess on rear-end ratios (Nissan only offers one), but I suspect that Toyota will offer at least one package with a maximum tow rating of 10,000 lbs.

Pricing will probably be geared at Nissan, which could cause a few problems. Nissan’s sales model is geared the product to high-volume configurations with relatively few options, which often gives them a pricing advantage. Since Toyota lacks the sales expertise, and since inventory space would just as well be used for more Camrys, price is one of the numbers they’ll be selling on.

In terms of frame technology and construction, the only thing I have to go on is that John Davis (the Motor Week guy) gave video testimony that Toyota’s won’t match GM’s. Will they be able to get away with bolted cross-members (which was practically criminal) this time? Will Toyota have an equivalent to the G-80?

We'll find out soon enough.

Bowing Out

I know you guys are looking for more than mere speculation, but beyond that only time will tell. I’ve spilled just about all of my guts on this one. The trucks are awesome. They’re gorgeous. And they’re worthy of all the pride they garner. They’ll get the job done, and they’ll keep doing it for decades.

No one really doubted that in the first place. I can only wonder what will happen when customers see the initial round of hard-loaded trucks. How much more will a customer be willing to spend in order to get their ideal truck? Will general managers be able to maintain adequate inventory to cover the astronomical array of equipment and trim options? Will the sales staffs be able to keep up? Ultimately, has GM outdone herself on this one?

My final message is an optimistic “no.” Chevy and GMC are the truck makers, and people look to them for the trucks they want, and the trucks they need. The keys lay in the value, where even the W/T+SL/LS, and the LT1 and SLE1 trucks can pass for luxury, and where the GM trucks can be equipped to more individual criteria. This is still a needs-based segment, and the GM trucks will suit the needs of their customers better than any other.

Yours truly,

Insane W. Ghrankenstein

[ChevroletRevived]

Yeah, it's a great article! Good job Ghrankenstein!

[Silverado14]

Can't wait to see one in person!!!

[cc1999]

They did not have any specs at the show, but one of the people did mention it having dual VVT. No mention of DOD though.

This is yet another reason I think GM needs to offer the 6.0 in all the configs and not just the multi seat short beds. especially if the above mentioned hp estimates are correct. The 5.3 is no match for the Toyota 5.7.

[cc1999]

Here are a few more pics that I took down in Texas. I was told the new San Antonio plant was almost ready, and that once it was up and running that the Indiana plant would be converted over temporarily to get the initial demands satisfied.

[asim]

Toyota is being really quiet right about now. How much do you wanna bet that they probably have 2 disassembled 900s right now?

[Driveshaft]

Originally Posted by cc1999

I cannot get over that bulbous hood. I just think of what these are going to look like in 10 years and I really think they're going to be the definition of Toyota's bad styling. Not even the FJ40 is that ugly.

Now put this in my garage, and I'd be happy:

[superstreet]

its ugly and i dont think that the 4.7lv8 will have 300-320hp

[greg_mgoblue]

Originally Posted by superstreet

its ugly and i dont think that the 4.7lv8 will have 300-320hp

Yep ugly is the word that comes to mind, yuk.


PS

Hey Columbus, I hear Toyota is working on a rust red and gray paint package just for you. Go Blue!

[Ghrankenstein]

Pickup buyers should notice the eight exposed bolts in the bed of the Tundra. That's a "we can get away with it" shortcut.

Ghrank

[TOMHONE]

Can anyone here who works on the production lines tell me how many plants are producing the 900 line of trucks for GM? And what type of numbers have these plants already produced? THANKS much. A GM shareholder here and potential 900 buyer.

[cc1999]

Originally Posted by Ghrankenstein

Pickup buyers should notice the eight exposed bolts in the bed of the Tundra. That's a "we can get away with it" shortcut.

Ghrank

I see those bolt heads, I am not sure what problems may result from them being there. The one thing that I think will be interesting is the specs when they come out. After seeing these trucks in person, I think the Tundra has a noticeable amount of additional floor space in that bed vs the Chevy. Thats what is important to me in my business. Not so much the appearance of the truck but the function and how well the truck can help me get our products to our customers. Since GM narrowed up the tailgates on there trucks, I have a real concern about our current stock of power tailgates being able to be installed on the new GM 900s. If not mistaken GMs 900 series tailgate is 4"s narrower than the classic series GM trucks. The amount of usable floor space is also in Toyota's favor based on how far they have the rear wheels shoved toward the back of the truck vs somewhat centered in the middle of the beds on the GM. I am just going buy visual observations here of the two strictly based on there functionality for me in my business. I also should note that the cab doors and the behind the seat storage appears to even trump the dodge and Ford regular cabs as far as usable space. The Tundra however ugly some might think it is, you can't knock the functional thought that went into making this truck with the worker and work needed to be done in mind. I was impressed this time around, the little wanta-be big trucks never impessed me much at all. This truck does impress me. You can also get the Toyota with the dual VVT 5.7 and 6 speed auto trans, in any cab or bed length you want unlike GM where the best engines for working are limited to the short bed trucks with back seats. I think GM could have put some more thought into there trucks IMHO.

All that said Toyota has never been a player in the fleet world, so I doubt I get the opportunity to try them. I know I won't be paying 2-3 grand extra for the Toyota name, as many people do, that are retail customers of Toyota products.

[cc1999]

Here is a link to a ton of new data on the X-factor (Tundra ) There is a lot of info here, and a lot of detailed pics. I do agree its a different looking truck, but I thought the same thing about the new GMT 900 chevy and I have to admit the chevy is starting to grow on me a little, the more I see of the chevys in person the better I think it looks. The Toyota did not seem as odd looking in real life as it does from some of the angles in the pic in this link

http://news.windingroad.com/auto-new...eds/#more-1514

here are some pics taken off the link above.



This pic puts the behind the seat storage on there regular cab in perspective, Its a huge amount of space.

[cc1999]

Quote from a October Car and driver early review

"5.7-liter V-8. Sorry, this falls under the Louisville Official Secrets compact. We can tell you this all-new engine will deliver a level of grunt that will rank at or near the top of the half-ton truck charts, with work ratings—payload, towing (Toyota is willing to go on record with “over 10,000 pounds)—that will be ditto. It will also show up in other future Toyota/Lexus truck products.
Two transmissions will be offered, both automatic—the five-speed auto employed in the current Tundra, and a brand-new six-speed gearbox to go with the new 5.7-liter V-8. The latter will be unique in the full-size pickup world, at least for the time being."
Car and Driver preview report October 06'

Here is a link to the car and driver article.

http://www.caranddriver.com/previews...ta-tundra.html


I think the main thing GM needs to watch out for is the project fuel economy of the new Toyota dual VVT 6 speed auto.

Also

Toyota must have a lot of confidence in the new motor and the new trans, because they are giving it a 10,000 pound tow rating.

[MelvinJ]

Originally Posted by cc1999

After seeing these trucks in person, I think the Tundra has a noticeable amount of additional floor space in that bed vs the Chevy. Thats what is important to me in my business. ... The amount of usable floor space is also in Toyota's favor based on how far they have the rear wheels shoved toward the back of the truck vs somewhat centered in the middle of the beds on the GM.

I'm just curious, what about the position of the rear wheels gives you the impression that it would have more usable floor space in the bed? If you've seen the length and width measurements and they are bigger than GM, or if the wheelwells are less intrusive, I could see it, but I don't see how having the axle pushed back further would make more floor space.