GM's Truck-loads of Cash: Will It Put The Brakes on Toyota?

[steinravnik]

Originally Posted by Big Dog

Toyota having to put 4000 on their NEW truck is a worse sign for them than GM putting 4000 on the old body style Silverado.

I agree 100%. Toyota trucks are still toys.

[GMusa]

GM has to do this because Toyota Tundra's were not selling well so Toyota had to put big incentives on the Tundra to generate sales.. in order for GM (Ford, Nissan, Dodge) to stay competitive they must also have incentives on their trucks.

But GM also needs to do more.. they need more commercials detailing how their trucks are truly better in performance and that they get better gas millage.

(I know GM's full-size pickups dont get much better gas millage then the Tundra, but remember thats with GM's 4-speed, wait till they roll out the 6-speed, not to mention the two-mode hybrids.)

[GMusa]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Dog
Toyota having to put 4000 on their NEW truck is a worse sign for them than GM putting 4000 on the old body style Silverado.

I also agree 100%, Toyota has to up huge incentives on their brand new truck, thats pretty bad!

[N8s07ss]

Originally Posted by Hitman1970

Most of my peers talk about the end of Detroit like it is inevitable. They do not even contemplate the ripple effects if this were to happen.

It's because it won't affect them, only that crappy midwestern town up in MI.

Part of me wants Global Warming doomsday scenarios to come true so that the Midwest will become the place where "everyone" else wants to live. Then all the Midwesterners can say, "F*** You."

[N8s07ss]

Originally Posted by mkaresh

Maybe, but there aren't nearly as many of those "direct jobs" anymore. And the rest of the country doesn't care about a recession in the Midwest.

Doesn't GM have over 300K US employees? And the other two aren't that far behind, especially ford. If you use the 1/10 theory, that's nearly 6 million people. Sounds like a lot to me.

[Geotpf]

Originally Posted by Big Dog

Sales up 21% from what? From last years Tundra...BIG deal.

That 21% figure is massively wrong. I have no idea where they got it from. Maybe it's comparing June 2007 sales to May 2007. The actual figure, when comparing June 2007 to June 2006, is an increase of 137.2%.

http://pressroom.toyota.com/Releases...T2007070389166

[Geotpf]

Originally Posted by E. Haskell

Didn't Toyota usually sell around 150k Tundras around the peak years of the previous Tundra? I would expect a new truck to atleast match that.

If they sell 200k this year, that is 50k more trucks. 50k spread out among Ford, Dodge and GM isn't going to be a huge sales decrease for any of them. Granted, they probably don't want to let things snowball to quickly.

In 2006 and 2005, they sold about 125k in each year, thier previous peak.

They sold 21,727 in June 07. If they sold that many every month for a year, they would sell about 260k. So it's more like double.

However, Ford and GM have each sold about a million full sized trucks a year in the past, and Dodge about 400,000 (plus about 100,000 from Nissan). Sales in the full sized truck segment are shrinking overall, though. That is, if Toyota's sales go up by 135k or whatever, sales from everybody else will probably go down by 300k or more from thier peaks. It's possible for Toyota to beat Dodge in a couple years, but they will never come close to GM or Ford, at least not for decades.

[racy]

Originally Posted by Havasavana

From the article: "If they have to keep rolling out 0% financing, the guys at Toyota will do that."

Toyota WILL sell their trucks. If they want to sell all the factories can make, they'll do it. GM is falling into a trap, plan B from Toyota is my guess, to chase Toyota down the price war path. Toyota would have preferred to sell at MSRP or close to it, but that plan didn't work. So they'll do what they have to do. If it were GM against just Toyota, I think GM would be ahead to let Toyota sell their production limit and keep their, GM's, incentives low. But it isn't just Toyota, it's also Ford and Dodge and GM has to compete with them. It's been obvious for months that this credible truck from Toyota will show the way for the final destruction of GM. Toyota doesn't have to outsell GM in trucks, just to take away enough profit so that GM sinks. I'm afraid the new Sequoia will do the same to GM's big SUVs.

Attitude like this won't get you very far in this forum. However, I believe you're dead on (as usual). The only thing I am not so sure about is the new Sequoia. I knew the Tundra was going to be a hit, and we all knew Toyota put a *LOT* of attention into making sure it was a hit. We haven't seen that with the Sequoia yet.

GM can't compete in a spending war. They are clearly on the ropes. As someone above mentioned, GM might be better off diverting the rebate money into Marketing and Advertising money - pouring wads of advertising cash into their hybrid trucks.

And regarding hybrid trucks, this *IS* an area in which Toyota cannot compete. Toyota's HSD technology will not be able to compete with GM's hybrid system going into the Tahoe.

[racy]

Originally Posted by steinravnik

I agree 100%. Toyota trucks are still toys.

It doesn't matter what you think. What matters is that Toyota is selling hoards of them. Toyota is making a profit and grabbing market share in an astonishingly short period of time.

It doesn't matter that you consider Honda's "truck" a non-truck. What matters is that they are selling them and again, making a profit and taking market share. And to boot, both Toyota and Honda are getting rave reviews.

No one thought the Lexus was a true luxury car either - now look at Lexus: They are making profit and taking market share. No one thought Scion would catch on. After its first year, Scion made a profit and took market share....how long did it take Saturn to turn a profit? Saturn has never have turned a profit for more than 1 consecutive year.

It doesn't matter what any of us "think" about Toyota. They are selling, and the Domestics are not. That's what matters.

[asim]

Originally Posted by MOOSTOPHA

if anyone wants to know, i posted a full explanation of these incentives in the dealer forum.

Where is it man? All I know is that Toyota is really upping up their incentives, and since they went up A LOT the last month, and GM didn't do all that great; GM is upping up incentives also.

[SierraGS]

Originally Posted by Z06ified

I agree. Diesel will be the quickest way to catch Toyota asleep at the wheel in the 1/2 ton truck market. Toyota seems to be very adverse to diesels, and their "everything hybrid" strategy is not going to work, especially in the truck market. Traditional pickup buyers will choose a diesel 9 times out of 10 over a hybrid if they are concerned about fuel economy with their truck.

Right on the money.

GM needs to fast track the 4.5L diesel with 6-speed and offering the 6.6 Duramax in 3/4 ton Suburbans should have happened at introduction, GM has known there are customers that have been asking for Diesel Suburbans for years (as well as 1/2 pickups).

Granted there was the old 6.5L Detriot Diesel but it never had the reputation for power the Duramax had AND it suffered from no Advertising support from GM.

[E. Haskell]

Originally Posted by Geotpf

They sold 21,727 in June 07. If they sold that many every month for a year, they would sell about 260k. So it's more like double.

I thought running at full capacity the plant could only build 200k units per year.

If Toyota can keep up a 260k pace with a plant made to produce 200k....I'll be truely impressed.

As someone pointed out, many of those 21k are likely previous orders that were filled.

They sold 126,529 Tundras in '05. You would expect any all-new model to pick up atleast 10-15k sales. Thus, with a 200k capacity, Toyota is picking up about 70k units from the competition. Spread that over 4 automakers and none of them is taking a serious hit.

[Road Kill]

Sadly Toyota can and will outspend GM, thanks to the NA buying public.

[OneMeanChevy]

Originally Posted by 1931Chevy

Since GM is #1 in trucks, and trucks are the vehicle in terms of profit, the boys in Detroit are giving dealers more ammunition to win over buyers. Will it help stop the erosion is sales? Perhaps at first. But this is not a long solution. Greater incentives hurt GM profit margins on trucks

Unless I have missed something Ford is #1 in Trucks(F-150), Right?

[hdmax]

Originally Posted by OneMeanChevy

Unless I have missed something Ford is #1 in Trucks(F-150), Right?

By brand yes Ford is number one, but no not the F-150. It is all the F-series trucks added together to get that win. F-150, F-250, F-350, F450, and F-550's If sales were broke down in to 1/2 ton, 3/4 ton, and so on. I would be willing to bet that in most years Chevy would out sale Ford in the 1/2 ton market. (Because about 40-42 percent of all full sized Ford pickups are F250 and larger, and GM's numbers are closer to 35-36%)
And overall, GM out sales Ford nearly every year in the full size pickup market....... I read a report after Ford out sold GM with the 2004 new model, and in the article, it was stated that 2004 was just the 3rd time since something like 1950 that Ford did this. So GM almost always out sales Ford in full sized pickups........

I love how the media puts their little spin on things. The brand new model tundra has $4,000-$7,000 on the hood, and they hardly mention it, yet GM raises their rebate to $2,000 on the new model, and raise it on the old model to $4,000, and they call it truck loads of cash............