GM reopening two plants thanks to axle shipments from Mexico

[BPGTim]

Originally Posted by likearock00

Yeah!!! Our amigos from Mexico strike again! I bet the deal was that the workers would only make them if they could hand deliver them into the US.

The sad part is all the people happy that we are going to take parts from Mexico. Let's go around all the American manufacturer's from every other company and keep the money funneling into AA by buying from Mexican plant and leaving american workers still broke........hmmmm....that will help the economy.

[hunchman]

Originally Posted by Cortazzo

Striking during a recession has to be the biggest bone-headed move american axle union workers could have done. Having a job at all is pretty good right now while things are getting tight. I want to see jobs stay in america, but I won't shed a tear for these folks.

It always amazes me to see how willing a fellow american will turn his/her back on another.Did people in this forum and in threads like this miss something? I'll use a quote......"Before the strike, workers earned about $28 an hour. American Axle says it needs $14 an hour wages to be competitive with rivals, many of which have cut costs through bankruptcy.

The union says such concessions are not warranted given Dauch's 2007 total compensation of $10.2 million and company profits of $37 million last year"

So they want to cut the wages in half and in the same breath give dauch $10.2 million...........seems like competitive got mixed up with company greed.

[SUPERBADD75]

Originally Posted by member12

I am starting to think the economy isn't in the tank.

It's a downturn created by poor lending decisions by big banks and overbuilding in the housing market caused by speculation and a real estate bubble. The high gas prices and tighter lenders are pushing us into a recession, but I don't think it's as bad as the media says that it is (it's the American media...it has to be the worst thing to ever happen otherwise no one would watch). I think the oil bust in the 80s was much worse than this for my family, and high gas prices are probably helping to keep our economy afloat...lots of mining jobs and lots of industrial construction (LNG tanks, refineries and refinery expansions-yes we are building several in this country).

It's not the best time to be in the automobile business or in residential construction, but things fluctuate in a capitolist economy. 25 years ago, oil was a bad business to be in....now it's hot. High gas prices hurt car sales (and effect people's decisions), high debt hurts everyone...but high gas prices also create jobs for people in America...so it isnt' all bad. I might have an opportunity move back to Louisiana/Texas soon to take advantage of this situation.

companies are laying people off left and right, banks are having trouble staying alive (admittedly because of dumb decisions on their part), people are starting to keep their money in their pocket, and the Fed is even worried right now as evidenced by the continued rate drops. we're headed toward a recession, and it could be a rough one. don't fool yourself, the banks' poor decisions have led the entire economy to a huge boom, and the economy is probably going to follow the banks when they crash, too. i hate it, but it's true.

[johnny smallblock]

Originally Posted by hunchman

It always amazes me to see how willing a fellow american will turn his/her back on another.

Here, here. People on this site are so patriotic until it comes to paying a little more for an American product. Then they throw Americans under the bus and actually cheer when jobs are moved out of this country.

People are actually rooting for the reduction of wages and loss of jobs so they can buy a cheaper car with an American name, but foreign parts. This is simply unbelievable. And shameful.

[tgagneguam]

Ah, yes, Union-Corporate relations are at their lowest point in years, there's an immense distrust of each other, and the situation grows grimmer.

And the transplants and their suppliers continue to enjoy good relations, and they continue to gain ground in the US. Sounds like a new approach is needed on the part of Detroit and the UAW. This approach isn't working.

I do have to wonder about union solidarity. I recall the Teamsters were set to help their UAW brothers and sisters during the recent albeit brief strikes that occurred right before the UAW and GM settled on a contract. Will the Teamsters play a similar role? Will they thwart Detroit's efforts to circumvent American-sourced, unionized parts by either not shipping them or by not shipping finished vehicles? It wouldn't be the smartest move, but that hasn't stopped people from doing the same before.

This tit for tat could get interesting. And neither side will benefit.

[slowinthefastlane]

Originally Posted by unkillsam

Why? Camry and Tundra owners already believe that the American worker cannot build a quality product

If GM had an axle recall, the story would be near the front and would look something like this:

Page A2
GM recalls 80,000 full size trucks
November 23rd, 2009
Associated Press

General Motors recalled 80,000 2008-2009 Chevrolet Silverado and GMC Sierra full-size pickup trucks today. The purpose of the recall is to replace seals in the rear axle that could leak. The resultant leak could cause loss of control of the vehicle. No accidents or injuries have been reported. The axles were imported by GM from Mexico during the prolonged strike at American Axle's U.S.-based manufacturing plants. "GM imported the axles to undercut the gains made by the UAW, the American Worker, and the American middle class," said UAW president Ron Gettlefinger. "The Mexican-built axles were not built to the same level of quality as the axles built in a UAW plant", Gettlefinger continued. "I'm pleased to see that GM is suffering," former American Axle assembly worker John Smith said of the recall. "I haven't been able to feed my family since the plant closed," he added. Smith, 42 is currently looking for work in the UAW's job bank program. "My youngest daughter has had to go without her medicine as well. It's grim out there". A General Motors spokesperson could not be reached for comment.



The Toyota story for the same recall for the same batch of axles from the same Mexican plant would look something like this:

Page U22
Toyota recalls some full size trucks.
November 23rd, 2009
Associated Press

Toyota recalled some of it full-size 2008 Tundra pickup trucks today. The purpose of the recall is to inspect seals in the rear axle that have a small chance of leaking. A Toyota spokesperson could not be reached for comment.

[racy]

Originally Posted by tgagneguam

Ah, yes, Union-Corporate relations are at their lowest point in years, there's an immense distrust of each other, and the situation grows grimmer.

And the transplants and their suppliers continue to enjoy good relations, and they continue to gain ground in the US. Sounds like a new approach is needed on the part of Detroit and the UAW. This approach isn't working.

I do have to wonder about union solidarity. I recall the Teamsters were set to help their UAW brothers and sisters during the recent albeit brief strikes that occurred right before the UAW and GM settled on a contract. Will the Teamsters play a similar role? Will they thwart Detroit's efforts to circumvent American-sourced, unionized parts by either not shipping them or by not shipping finished vehicles? It wouldn't be the smartest move, but that hasn't stopped people from doing the same before.

This tit for tat could get interesting. And neither side will benefit.

I disagree. By no means is this anywhere close to being one of the worst labor/management relations years. Last I checked, there hasn't been any bloodshed. Frankly, considering all that has happened to both labor AND management, I'd consider the past three years *EXTREMELY* sedate and pragmatic.

This American Axle business is a one-off situation. I am beginning to believe more and more that GM simply strong-armed them in to a strike. I am getting the feeling AA didn't want to strike - rather, they had to simply not to let GM get away with free fscking up the bunghole.

[tgagneguam]

Originally Posted by johnny smallblock

Here, here. People on this site are so patriotic until it comes to paying a little more for an American product. Then they throw Americans under the bus and actually cheer when jobs are moved out of this country.

People are actually rooting for the reduction of wages and loss of jobs so they can buy a cheaper car with an American name, but foreign parts. This is simply unbelievable. And shameful.

Curiously, do you specifically spend the time searching for American-made products? It's not easy, but it can be done. From home entertainment systems-nope, Sony and Panasonic aren't the only brands out there-to clothes, you can actually find American-made products. It just takes a little effort. And you're going to pay more for them, in general.

When you peruse your house, when you flip for the labels on clothes and a variety of other products in your home, I'm sure you will find that many are made outside of this country. I'm not so certain why people are comfortable claiming that their car is American-made yet many, many of the other products they buy are not, and that seems OK.

I can tell you, I make the effort whenever possible-I just bought a pair of very high quality, American-made boots, but they certianly weren't cheap- but honestly, it feels like an uphill battle to do it regularly.

[tgagneguam]

Originally Posted by racy

I disagree. By no means is this anywhere close to being one of the worst labor/management relations years. Last I checked, there hasn't been any bloodshed. Frankly, considering all that has happened to both labor AND management, I'd consider the past three years *EXTREMELY* sedate and pragmatic.

This American Axle business is a one-off situation. I am beginning to believe more and more that GM simply strong-armed them in to a strike. I am getting the feeling AA didn't want to strike - rather, they had to simply not to let GM get away with free fscking up the bunghole.

Perhaps relationships may not be at their worst, racy, but relationships between the Union and Detroit OEM's are far from rosy. And the relationship between GM and its suppliers is nothing to write home about, either. I cannot imagine this doesn't have a downstream effect. It's not the best way to move back foreign competition, which traditionally has enjoyed better relationships with their suppliers, which bears out in independent studies.

Everyone is in the game against foreign competition, and I do not believe maintaining an adversarial relationship benefits this cause.

[Karch]

Regarding trade, it's an ugly fact of life in these times.

What really irks me is we give "favored" nation trade status to countries that are essentially everything this country is against.

I mean, in the 50's, would anyone ever consider buying anything from a communist country?

I don't want to sound like a bigot, it's actually not about communism or anti-communism, but about rights and fair trade.

We (especially our white house and trade commissions in congress) allow countries that don't practice fair trade, that don't go after violaters of patent and copyright laws, that don't allow for free market currency adjustments, that don't reciprocate on trade, and on top of all these trade irregularities and violations, they don't support human rights.

What do we call these countries? Our trade partners. We'll probably start calling them Uncle in a few years.

It's pathetic and disgusting, and the above poster is correct, look in the mirror, as we allow it. We don't vote the congress and administration out, and we continue to buy these products, because we are all just selling ourselves out, whatever is cheapest that will do the job.

I forgot who said it a few years ago, but they said outsourcing is good for our economy...it creates jobs. Sure, it does, therapists, head hunters, pharmacists...just great, isn't it.

And with that line of thinking, why don't we just outsource all the jobs, then look how well off we'd be. We'd have more free time than the Europeans.

Do you know they dropped the average work week in France more people could be at least partially employed? That way their unemployment numbers are lower.

I think we'd call that "healthy worker" plan.

Why don't we try to develop a "happy" or "wealthy" worker plan.

And let's not get started about the healthcare industry.

Thanks.

[treekiller]

Originally Posted by tgagneguam

Curiously, do you specifically spend the time searching for American-made products? It's not easy, but it can be done. From home entertainment systems-nope, Sony and Panasonic aren't the only brands out there-to clothes, you can actually find American-made products. It just takes a little effort. And you're going to pay more for them, in general.

Used to, when times were good, now I just don't have that choice. I'm unemployed... and $14 a hour might actually pay my bills. Where do I sign up for that job since they don't exist here in Florida. I actually had to use epoxy to repair my shoes yesterday since I can't afford new ones AND electricity.

I also sell racing parts as a sideline business, and while Hoosier Tires are the cats tail, I sell 4 times as many Korean made racing tires because they are 25% cheaper. suspension the premium for US made parts is sometimes 100-200% we CAN make better items at competitive prices, we just choose not to, every company in america wants to be "the best" and I'll be honest, sometimes they are.

I refuse to get involved in a Labor vs. management argument, since I've been in both positions in my life and can see both sides of the coin. but that is my main concern, it's always labor VS. management, NOT Labor+Management VS. the competition. in this respect many countries have us licked and always will. our freedom and feeling of entitlement make everyone believe they are wonderful. we tell our children "you can be whatever you want when you grow up" but that simply is not the case. in the words of Judge Schmails from caddyshack "the world needs ditch diggers too"

I believe management should make very good money if they effectively manage their workforce lower costs, increase productivity, but if your workers resent you for going to college, working harder, weekends, nights, and excelling to get yourself in a position of power, It's never going to work. so the unionized labor system is flawed, I hate to say it. It fosters that resentment and creates a hostile work environment. someone PLEASE explain to me how that is any good for business?

I believe the best performing workers should be paid more. plain and simple, if Joe can produce 1500 widgets an hour and John can only manage 500 then Joe should make 3 times as much. I've seen hourly employees fall into the "lowest common denominator" Joe starts a new job and is good at it, instead of him excelling at that job, the quotas are set for John and Joe then works 1/3 of his potential since he has no vested interest in performing to his potential.

Now in sales this is very common, and in sales it's a common management practice to "thin the heard" increasing quotas and constantly bringing on new talent. if you believe in natural selection this is it's purest form. while this is an extreme example production management can be done in a similar fashion (as long as the job in question does not take a tremendous amount of training) so am I going to shed a tear? YES at the lost jobs and you can bet that once production moves it's not coming back. but the argument that someone in a unrelated position made good money so I am entitled to some is... well. wrong.

In our world $60,000/yr plus benefits for semi skilled labor (and NO OVERTIME) is just propostiorous. I know what it takes to make that level of income in our "normal job market" and it's a lot of late nights and weekends and working HARD!!! $30,000 a year and the opportunity for overtime is what a semi skilled position SHOULD be paid. if the person wants to work 60 hours a week to increase their income to that level they should be welcome to do so. but to make the top level of income you must be a top level producer.

[racy]

Originally Posted by tgagneguam

Perhaps relationships may not be at their worst, racy, but relationships between the Union and Detroit OEM's are far from rosy. And the relationship between GM and its suppliers is nothing to write home about, either. I cannot imagine this doesn't have a downstream effect. It's not the best way to move back foreign competition, which traditionally has enjoyed better relationships with their suppliers, which bears out in independent studies.

Everyone is in the game against foreign competition, and I do not believe maintaining an adversarial relationship benefits this cause.

True, true and true again.

I suppose my conspiracy theory gene is making itself known, in this AA strike. It just doesn't make any sense to me on any level.

Someone, or a group of someones is going to make a lot of money on this, and another, larger group of people are going to lose a lot of money.

To bring politics into the thread (which always ruins a good thread, so apologies in advance), this really helps Obama. Not so much for Hillary as she is pretty much beyond help at this point, and is a big negative for McCain, who is a huge NAFTA supporter.

[ZOOMY]

Originally Posted by hunchman

It always amazes me to see how willing a fellow american will turn his/her back on another.Did people in this forum and in threads like this miss something? I'll use a quote......"Before the strike, workers earned about $28 an hour. American Axle says it needs $14 an hour wages to be competitive with rivals, many of which have cut costs through bankruptcy.

The union says such concessions are not warranted given Dauch's 2007 total compensation of $10.2 million and company profits of $37 million last year"

So they want to cut the wages in half and in the same breath give dauch $10.2 million...........seems like competitive got mixed up with company greed.

Welcome to the hooray for me screw you mentality of our society today. We are all for a cause or helping someone unless it comes out of our pocket, then we'll put people in the streets to save ourselves a dollar.

[ZOOMY]

Originally Posted by BPGTim

The sad part is all the people happy that we are going to take parts from Mexico. Let's go around all the American manufacturer's from every other company and keep the money funneling into AA by buying from Mexican plant and leaving american workers still broke........hmmmm....that will help the economy.

Funny how that works isn't it? You put people here out of work and all of a sudden they have no money to spend on the already bad economy. Maybe if the stock market crashes then people will get the message.

[ZOOMY]

I'm sure all those people South of the border have the same pride and work ethic of the union employees in Buffalo. I would think we would actually want to preserve the wages these people make. You know that most often when people have extra income they spend it instead of save it. The higher quality parts and the economic benefits are both worth saving these jobs here.