GM Indefinitely Postpones 4.5L Duramax Diesel

[AMERICA 123]

The formal statement from GM reads as follows:

FOR RELEASE: 2009-03-11

CONTACTS

GM Statement Regarding the Duramax 4.5L V-8 Diesel


Given the current economic climate, GM has reviewed and updated its U.S. product portfolio and has decided to place on indefinite hold its previously announced plan to add a Duramax 4.5L V-8 diesel engine in 2010 to its Chevrolet Silverado and GMC Sierra light-duty trucks.

Chevrolet and GMC will continue to offer a heavy duty Duramax 6.6L V-8 diesel, which is class-leading in both horsepower and torque. Light-duty truck customers can also choose from several fuel-efficient gasoline engines with GM’s Active Fuel Management mated to a six-speed transmission or a new 2-Mode hybrid that provides up to 40 percent improved city fuel mileage and 25 percent improvement in overall fuel efficiency. In fact, no other full-size pickup has better fuel economy.

GM remains optimistic that the Duramax 4.5L V-8 diesel may be a viable option in its future portfolio.

CONTACT(S):
Susan Garavaglia
GM Advanced Technology Communications
248-857-4368
susan.garavaglia@gm.com

http://media.gm.com/servlet/GatewayS...=2&docid=52890

Now go add up all the the other capital reduction programs in this industry for regular gassers and battery hybrids including the Prius plant in Mississippi for some perspective.

[ogg vorbis]

Originally Posted by WishIhadatruck

Hopefully they will eventually get the motor into some LD trucks. I'd love to see it in a Suburban.

While I agree HCCI will be common and great eventually, it is a few years off before we even see the first application of it. Diesels can be here now. HCCI is probably useless in a towing environment as well.

very true. hcci is very limited in rpm and load.

however, a series gas/electric or hcci/electric truck would compete with the 4.5 duramax in torque, and get much better economy. 25% better economy over the 6.0 vortec is about 28 mpg hwy. the hybrids are around 22 mpg hwy. a series hybrid will get 40+ mpg hwy with the engine running constantly (no load); more with hcci. (the volt will do 50+ mpg hwy with the engine running).

the reason half of european cars are diesel is gasoline cost, and it's the best thing currently available. volt is a better technology.

[AMcA]

Originally Posted by goblue

How is the Jetta TDI selling?

Put your name on a long list. Particularly if you live on either coast.

[CaptainDan]

Originally Posted by rcworker

This is par for the course, as far as GM is concerned. The powers to be in HQ are convinced that American consumers are too unsophisticated to comprehend diesel as a viable fuel in cars and trucks.

Just another case of GM brass telling customers what they want to buy.

To run a business this way is stupid. In my years in retail this is not good for business.

It sounds like GM management hit the nail on the head. I would certainly conclude that (most) American consumers ARE "too unsophisticated" to comprehend diesel as a viable fuel in cars and trucks.

And this would then be a case of GM brass letting customers tell THEM what they want to buy.

That's how you run a business.

[RamJet502]

This is getting ridiculous, GM could have dominated the segment. STUPID move!

[AMERICA 123]

Originally Posted by ogg vorbis

very true. hcci is very limited in rpm and load.

however, a series gas/electric or hcci/electric truck would compete with the 4.5 duramax in torque, and get much better economy. 25% better economy over the 6.0 vortec is about 28 mpg hwy. the hybrids are around 22 mpg hwy. a series hybrid will get 40+ mpg hwy with the engine running constantly (no load); more with hcci. (the volt will do 50+ mpg hwy with the engine running).

the reason half of european cars are diesel is gasoline cost, and it's the best thing currently available. volt is a better technology.

Not for every user application and most definitely not for a truck.

If you spend the same amount of money building a diesel turbo - for anything but a very specialized green halo city commuter with that proposal of yours - the diesel will bury it - and everything else.

And on that one, a diesel hydraulic hybrid takes the cake any way.

*************

You got it somewhat backwards on fuel costs as well..

Some of Europe favors diesel, some of Europe penalizes diesel, and some of Europe treats them equally.

The USA on the otherhand, pretty much penalizes diesel at all levels in all ways - you're making a straw argument about taxation etc.

And given all the rest, why would it not be desirable to subsidize diesel and penalize gasoline -

Furthermore diesel will not create an overseas dependency on foreign sourced batteries, components and critical raw materials, does not require massive subsidies from the Government to even be feasible - or bought by the consumer, and is definitely less environmentally destructive.

PHEV's at this time essentially burn coal and gasoline - great.

Bio diesel is one of the best possible all a round winners currently available to solve or improve many issues of the day whether real or imagined - or spun.

Diesel also will not require a very expensive battery replacement somewhere during it's operational life which is at least twice as long overall as well.

Its also a proven technology and actually exists - and does not require huge amounts of capital to be put at risk to sell at a massive per unit loss - with a massive taxpayer subsidy maybe 20,000 - 50,000 commuter products - would it be appropriate to mention this might be significant at this time ???

I'm all for the Volt - and PHEV's being offered - but as a truck powertrain solution - right up there with the Moon is made of cheese - and we could make a buck bringin' some of that down here - with less GHG emissions than using cows - oh please, please, lets starting building those rockets now..

[CaptainDan]

Originally Posted by goblue

......Also, this administration will do something to the gas tax at some point. The diesel vs gas cost could change anytime. If diesel became near the same price and it was sustained, AND if GM was being truthful about the 4.5L's NVH I would not be so quick to dismiss diesel sales in the US.

Diesel fuel prices have another problem. Refinery capacity. US refineries are not equipped to ramp up production of Diesel fuel. If Diesels become "popular", supplies will get tighter, leading to even greater price increases for it, and losing any cost benefit (and then some). Not to mention how that pricing will impact truck shipping costs.

And if you think Diesel fuel production from any given refinery can be increased vs gasoline production, think again. That would require new refineries, which generally take about ten years to build. If you can find somewhere to let you build it at all.

[AMERICA 123]

Reality says different.

Fuel Sell: Pumped Up Demand for Diesel Prompts Refineries to Invest Billions

By Santora, Tommy

Publication: New Orleans CityBusiness

Date: Monday, January 26 2009

United States refineries are typically configured to maximize gasoline output, so a concentration in more diesel production can be costly and timely with the addition of new units, but the nation's biggest refineries are making those investments.

ExxonMobil Refining and Supply owns two of the nation's top refineries in the United States: Baytown, Texas, with 567,000 barrels per day; and Baton Rouge, with 503,000 barrels per day.

It will invest more than $1 billion in three refineries to increase the supply of cleaner burning diesel by 6 million gallons per day, equal to the diesel produced from about four average-sized refineries.

The company will construct new units and modify existing facilities in Baton Rouge, Baytown and Antwerp, Belgium.

The Baton Rouge investment, which will be completed by mid-2010, will increase low-sulfur diesel production by 50 percent, said ExxonMobil public affairs manager George Pietrogallo, though he would not release current diesel production statistics. -

AW shucks, there's more, as in - "lots more".

San Antonio-based Valero Energy will boost its systemwide diesel output from 33 percent to 40 percent by 2012.

Its expansion projects call for new hydrocracker units, or systems that can produce "light" products from heavier crude oil fractions, at refineries in St. Charles and Port Arthur, Texas.

Valero also said it would trim gasoline production at 10 of its 16 refineries.

Valero's $1.25 billion hydrocracker project at its St. Charles refinery is under way and will be completed by the end of 2010, said company spokesman Bill Day.

The project calls for the construction of a new 50,000-barrel-per- day hydrocracker that will upgrade low-value feedstocks into ultralow-sulfur diesel.

A refinery feedstock is product derived from crude oil and destined for further processing other than blending.

There is also a $250 million project planned for completion by the end of this year < 2009 > that will expand the St. Charles refinery's crude and coking units.

"Valero believes future demand for diesel fuel, both in the United States and abroad, will be stronger than demand for gasoline," Day said.

By the end of 2009, Marathon Petroleum Co. will complete the largest construction project in company history -- a $3.35 billion refinery at its Garyville plant, which will add 180,000-barrels-per-day capacity. That includes 90,000 barrels of additional diesel production capacity to provide the equivalent of 7.5 million gallons of clean transportation fuels each day.

With the expansion, the refinery capacity will grow from 256,000 bpd to 436,000 bpd, placing the Garyville plant among the largest refineries.

Marathon originally planned for diesel to account for 30 percent of the facility's output, but now it expects diesel to make up 45 percent of production.

http://www.allbusiness.com/energy-ut...1768018-1.html

[GM-Joe]

They're going to hold this over congress' head, so they can plead for more money; purely a positioning move.

[goblue]

Originally Posted by AMERICA 123

Reality says different.


AW shucks, there's more, as in - "lots more".



http://www.allbusiness.com/energy-ut...1768018-1.html

Good find.

Used properly with good NVH and emissions, diesel's only disadvantage is the cost of the motor. As fuel prices rise, that becomes less significant. I know I'm in the minority on this, but what I care about is using less oil. That's primary. Helping the environment is secondary right now.

I'm not writing off diesel. I drove a Jetta TDI and was very impressed. If gas goes back to 5, and they drop it in an A4, I would strongly consider it. It's not as fast as the 2.0T, but it was plenty quick to do whatever I wanted in daily driving.

[AMERICA 123]

Used properly with good NVH and emissions, diesel's only disadvantage is the cost of the motor. As fuel prices rise, that becomes less significant.

Exactly - for the future if you will.

Thanks goblue - believe it or not - I hold back - on this one there is more and a great deal more in terms of International developments like the above.

China, as an example is going after diesel fuel exports - really hard and really fast.

Anyway. I was going to post this in another thread but it does seem at home here as well.

Before I do, please allow me to say directly to you - read between the lines if you will - all I'm interested in is diesel getting a fair opportunity - which is not a guarantee of the result - if you follow. I'm not "anti" anything per se most especially some of GM's non diesel efforts which most definitely should be part of the preferred patchwork of solutions we as a Nation pursue.

I fell confident that you will understand what I mean when I then say it's in our National Interests to do so and that matters - a great deal..

Well, the other thing that matters is makin' a buck and right now it's really hard to find the excitement for the buyin' public to do that so, these kind of numbers might help.

It's also nice that there is a distinct American lead in this category.

This is one of many like it.

Freightliner Custom Chassis Introduces Series Hydraulic Hybrid Unit

6 March 2009

Freightliner Custom Chassis Corporation (FCCC) has introduced a pilot hydraulic hybrid walk-in van chassis.

Designed and engineered in partnership with Parker Hannifin Corporation, the pilot hydraulic hybrid chassis is on display in Chicago at The Work Truck Show’s Hybrid Pavilion.

Based on the MT-55 walk-in van chassis, the system uses a series hybrid configuration, with the combustion engine connected to an engine pump motor.

Preliminary testing have indicates that the hydraulic hybrid improves fuel economy between 50 to 70% over traditional diesel-powered vehicles with automatic transmissions in stop-and-go applications. The hydraulic hybrid improves fuel economy in three significant ways: recovered braking energy; improved engine efficiency; and its engine-off feature.

http://www.greencarcongress.com/2009...tliner-cu.html

This one actually get's a sort of fourth 'benefit' going because you really can keep the engine off more often and for longer periods of time than with anything else.

That 50 -70% improvement is over a diesel - unreal compared to a conventional gasser - if you can put the two together.

( 1.0 x 1.33 x ( 1.5 -1.7 ) = 2.0 - 2.33 - which is a reasonable and somewhat conservative estimate - without the benefit of re optimizing the rest of the vehicle which in turn can bring it up even more -

Really tho, it's a fuel / engine independent situation - which is great also.

*************

This could save the large vehicle product group - both in diesel and gasoline / E85 form - and with all the other fuels to help as well.

And, we can do this at 'home' with our own materials.

[Kennyboy]

I for one, really hope for the HCCI engines to make its way to most cars and trucks, since the cost of gas is usually cheaper then diesel. Imagine the Cruze coming equipt with the HCCI engine.

[akenaten]

Originally Posted by XCR440SP

Except that the new emissions laws have about killed the diesels. Talk to owners of new body style Duramaxes and ask them if they're happy with the mileage. You'll find it's so much less than the duramax that they traded in for it that their upset about it (and its all the new diesels, not just Duramax). This is only going to be worse with the next hit in January. That coupled with the high engine price, higher price of diesel fuel and high maintence costs (fuel filters, higher oil quanity, etc), spell doom for the diesel segment. Don't belive me, go talk to salesman at any dealer that sells lots of diesels and ask how well diesels are selling.

For once I think this is GM being ahead of the curve instead of saying "they wanted it 5 years ago so they must still want it" they're looking at actual demand to make this decision.

Right now I'm seeing diesel prices that for some reason are less than regular gas. In the end you may be right.
But the fascists....excuse me the Amerikan Gubmint....want to kill off diesel in the future. I think that's pretty obvious.

[pwoods]

Originally Posted by CaptainDan

It sounds like GM management hit the nail on the head. I would certainly conclude that (most) American consumers ARE "too unsophisticated" to comprehend diesel as a viable fuel in cars and trucks.

And this would then be a case of GM brass letting customers tell THEM what they want to buy.

That's how you run a business.

I disagree. Look at heavy duty truck sales - they're a closer market to LD trucks than family sedans are. Just about every HD truck sold is a diesel. It would be nice for once if GM could come out with a product without requiring the competition to prove there is a market for it - and in the process give any first-to-market momentum to those competitors.

Ford has apparently done the same with their light duty diesel, but they at least have an alternative in their eco-boost motor. As nice as it is, I don't consider a 6.2L running premium an adequate alternative.

[vetterider19]

I am still dumbfounded by the American Public's resistance to buying Diesel vehicles. Lets think...25 MPG Highway with more power, capability and durability than the gasoline version. NO BRAINER.
Besides, GMs large RWD Sedans could have a powerful fuel efficient alternative in Diesel.