GM Indefinitely Postpones 4.5L Duramax Diesel

[AMcA]

File! File! File!

It's even worse than we thought.

They're dead.

[AMcA]

Originally Posted by kylepo

so.....whens the HCCI coming. and how long will it be postponed?

None of this is coming.

GM is dead.

The only question now is whether it can get back on its feet in bankruptcy.

[PhishPhood]

Here's another view of reality. GM, Ford and Toyota together have all decided that diesel powertrains for LD vehicles are not going to fly in NA.

All three are on record as being against diesels for LD vehicles. The reason of course is the price of the fuel. HCCI is a better option because it uses the less expensive gasoline.

I may be wrong but give GM credit for not developing a technology that is certain to be ignored. This may not apply to dieseheads and truck enthusiasts but frankly these two groups are small minorities. They will have to take a backseat to the general population for which diesel anything will never fly.

[Buick Riviera]

Originally Posted by PhishPhood

Here's another view of reality. GM, Ford and Toyota together have all decided that diesel powertrains for LD vehicles are not going to fly in NA.

All three are on record as being against diesels for LD vehicles. The reason of course is the price of the fuel. HCCI is a better option because it uses the less expensive gasoline.

I may be wrong but give GM credit for not developing a technology that is certain to be ignored. This may not apply to dieseheads and truck enthusiasts but frankly these two groups are small minorities. They will have to take a backseat to the general population for which diesel anything will never fly.

Thank you, your not wrong, HCCI system is were gm is heading.

[goblue]

Originally Posted by PhishPhood

Here's another view of reality. GM, Ford and Toyota together have all decided that diesel powertrains for LD vehicles are not going to fly in NA.

All three are on record as being against diesels for LD vehicles. The reason of course is the price of the fuel. HCCI is a better option because it uses the less expensive gasoline.

I may be wrong but give GM credit for not developing a technology that is certain to be ignored. This may not apply to dieseheads and truck enthusiasts but frankly these two groups are small minorities. They will have to take a backseat to the general population for which diesel anything will never fly.

How is the Jetta TDI selling?

[kylepo]

Originally Posted by PhishPhood

Here's another view of reality. GM, Ford and Toyota together have all decided that diesel powertrains for LD vehicles are not going to fly in NA.

All three are on record as being against diesels for LD vehicles. The reason of course is the price of the fuel. HCCI is a better option because it uses the less expensive gasoline.

I may be wrong but give GM credit for not developing a technology that is certain to be ignored. This may not apply to dieseheads and truck enthusiasts but frankly these two groups are small minorities. They will have to take a backseat to the general population for which diesel anything will never fly.

ummm just like all the people that buy the diesels in the HD trucks. Yea about that. If GM put the LD diesel across the board IE tahoe burb avalanche all LD truck models etc.....they would sell a ton even throw it in the HDs as a lower cost option to the big boy duramax. im not saying the HCCI might be better but it is easier to just throw the 4.5 out their now with most development done........

[AMERICA 123]

Originally Posted by CmicasatheGreat

AUTOMOTIVE NEWS

Seriously... what's the point -

Hang on, CmicasatheGreat, AN's just stirrin' the pot - and things like that if you look at their overall effort today.

More to the point, they're tryin' to pull a little play on words - remember they appear to have been long Toyota and short GM for the last 10 -15 years.

From the original source article -

- “Due to capital constraints and the current economic climate, the 4.5-liter Duramax is on indefinite hold,” GM powertrain spokesperson Susan Garavaglia told PickupTrucks.com

. “It’s not canceled.

Should the situation change, we’re still very interested in adding this technology to our product portfolio.” -

And -

Garavaglia added that GM might license the 4.5-liter V-8 to an outside partner even if it doesn't build it on its own.

"If it was a win-win for both parties, we could potentially outsource production (of the 4.5-liter V-8) to a third party," said Garavaglia.

Now compare that last one to AN - as you correctly quoted -

Rights to the engine may be sold to another company, Garavaglia said.

See the diff ?

*******************
Now lets just take the trash out - its Tuesday night.

Originally Posted by PhishPhood

Here's another view of reality. GM, Ford and Toyota together have all decided that diesel powertrains for LD vehicles are not going to fly in NA.

Complete and utter BS.

The decision path and the factors and choices that help make that are distinctly different at Toyota.

Toyota is an easy 5 years behind the rest on a power, performance, fuel economy, and emissions for this application because they foolishly believed they were going to have a usable HSD option available - Two Mode AND HSD shortcomings destroyed that - because they cannot match for this weight class - and the towing. ( They also believed fuel pricing wouldn't matter until later - but don't tell the Prius / Peak Oil people that. )

All three are on record as being against diesels for LD vehicles.

Totally false - as even the lead article here indicates.

There is a 'stack' of interrelated issues including a minor technical one - and some of this is because everyone got zigged with the oil bubble manipulation - with the diesel one on top.

You could say, a lack of money matters large as well.

The reason of course is the price of the fuel. HCCI is a better option because it uses the less expensive gasoline.

Yes and no.

None have 'exactly' the full story out - they are delayed for several reasons. ie for GM, Ford, and Chrysler it's a temporary setback and nothing more.

Toyota is hopelessly behind although they were tryin' really, really, hard and really, really, big to catch up - on the QT.

I may be wrong but give GM credit for not developing a technology that is certain to be ignored. This may not apply to dieseheads and truck enthusiasts but frankly these two groups are small minorities. They will have to take a backseat to the general population for which diesel anything will never fly.

In 5 years time, Light vehicle Compression ignition / Diesel will be easily outselling battery hybrids by 2:! in this country.

That's a conservative estimate and I'm not pulling a funny one by counting HCCI in the diesel column.

HCCI is farther away than most realize - for America anyway because of this and that in the real world. Europe, and possibly Japan will have it first - this is what happens when you let the POL people run your fuel and oil quality standards for and at their convenience.

( I sincerely hope all our Domestic OEM's will remember all the exact details on pt warranty pay and those costs during the 1978 -1988 period. If that doesn't work, go find the good stuff concerning the same and FI in the early nineties - especially for Nissan. )

. It isn't going to be just about Diesel doing well, its also going to be about battery hybrids failing to achieve profitable mainstream type cost structures - both for the OEM, and the consumer and some other stuff coming up on the outside product wise - in a failed economy.

Throw in the games the Chinese and Japanese are tryin' to run on critical raw materials and -

The only way this will not happen is if battery hybrids are massively subsidized and the penalizing of diesel is increased. ie both with breath taking and - beyond the pale bias.

Look, I can't post something that I would like to.

Your 'indirect' clues are the exact details of Honda's diesel delay, VW's one diesel delay, - and the European ones already present - and that are still coming.

You have to sort the wheat from the chaff to find it.

( There was one article out there a while back that basically nailed it )

Anyway, it's a bad toe stubbing it ain't a broken leg - or neck.

Evidently, fuel prices are not expected to be all that bad between now and then.

[pwoods]

Pardon the frustration, but this absolutely kills me. The bean counters at GM apparently aren't happy with just bankruptcy, but want to gut everything they can before they get there.

Have they learned nothing from the last twenty years? Cost cutting key [and a unique propulsion program in your largest market is key] programs is not the way to market success and profitability. Just because the other guy is doing it does not a good reason make. Ford, GMs by far largest competitor, has a valid alternative in the form of their 3.5L eco-boost motor. What's GM have, the 6.2 that requires premium gas? Part of the excuse for cutting this was fuel cost concerns? I'm not sure if I should laugh or cry.

I was waiting for this truck. For what I tow, and how often I do tow, this would have been perfect. I think I'll have to start read some reviews on Fords new motors when they hit the streets.

trucktrend.com article

[PhishPhood]

Originally Posted by goblue

How is the Jetta TDI selling?

It doesn't matter. The TDi a niche vehicle. GM is a mass marketer. The mass marketers no longer have the luxury of offering niches. Because the costs of R&D and production are so high and the sales prices are so low, in order to succeed there has to be massive volumes.

The 'vette is the one exception since it's so closely linked to GM's identity. After an initial surge of excitement I think that the Camaro is in for a rough life. To succeed it has to be in the next galaxy as compared to the Mustang. The Volt will be a niche vehicle as well. How many of these can GM field at one time.

If GM is to be a specialized maker of small niches then it will end up like Mazda or VW in the US at 7th or 8th or 12th in volume.

[goblue]

Originally Posted by PhishPhood

It doesn't matter. The TDi a niche vehicle. GM is a mass marketer. The mass marketers no longer have the luxury of offering niches. Because the costs of R&D and production are so high and the sales prices are so low, in order to succeed there has to be massive volumes.

The 'vette is the one exception since it's so closely linked to GM's identity. After an initial surge of excitement I think that the Camaro is in for a rough life. To succeed it has to be in the next galaxy as compared to the Mustang. The Volt will be a niche vehicle as well. How many of these can GM field at one time.

If GM is to be a specialized maker of small niches then it will end up like Mazda or VW in the US at 7th or 8th or 12th in volume.

The Cruze is selling with 2 diesel options in Europe. It won't be long before the Europeans require the same diesel emissions that we do - I would call that mass market.

I don't know what will happen with HCCI and in what timeframe. It looks good on paper, but has some speed limitations. It pairs better with VOLTEC more than a traditional mechanical powertrain.

Also, this administration will do something to the gas tax at some point. The diesel vs gas cost could change anytime. If diesel became near the same price and it was sustained, AND if GM was being truthful about the 4.5L's NVH I would not be so quick to dismiss diesel sales in the US.

[racy]

Originally Posted by megeebee

This is a shame, isn't it?


.

No, its flat out stupid. This is such an advanced engine it needed to be priority.

[WishIhadatruck]

Hopefully they will eventually get the motor into some LD trucks. I'd love to see it in a Suburban.

While I agree HCCI will be common and great eventually, it is a few years off before we even see the first application of it. Diesels can be here now. HCCI is probably useless in a towing environment as well.

[ChrisNJ]

Originally Posted by CmicasatheGreat

AUTOMOTIVE NEWS


Seriously... what's the point in giving GM money if they are only using it to continue paying over-paid UAW labor.. as opposed to putting out innovative products like this.

The article states that this Diesel engine could have been coupled with the Dual-Mode tech pushing the Silverado Hybrid into the "mid to high 20s mpg" range. ISN'T THAT THE POINT of everything the Pelosi/Obama brigade was pushing???

So far.. .due to CAFE or the Economy we have had ULTRA V8s delayed or killed, Clean Diesels pushed back, the CTS Coupe pushed back, the Z28 delayed or killed, the Hummer Brand put up for sale, same for Saab and Saturn, the S-Class Competitor delayed or killed... WHEN DOES THIS **** get better.. and how can GM become more competitive if they keep killing desirable vehicles and tech???

I love the idea of the Volt.. I love the idea of the Cruze and Spark (Beat).. but with exception to the Volt... These are not cars in my desired segment.

GM PLEASE file Chapt 11... by not doing so U are becoming a SLAVE to the liberals and making a fool of yourself to boot. Chapt 11 would alleviate U of the need to ask for more Gov't money, as the money U already have could fund your "float" to better times.

Yessssss, you read my mind. Please go bankrupt GM and re-group.
Soooooo, instead of the 4.5D, just update the 6.2 to direct injected or throw the 7.0 in the Escalades/Nali's for us if/when the 6.2 goes more mainstream.
I read an interesting article in Motortrend, I think is was a story on Glen Beck, and it said GM can build anything, the reason they don't move forward with great stuff is because the laws keep changing, which could nulify any investment, just because some regulator/politician has a bug up his you-know what. American can't take these liberals anymore.

[Beau]

Originally Posted by ChrisNJ

Yessssss, you read my mind. Please go bankrupt GM and re-group.
Soooooo, instead of the 4.5D, just update the 6.2 to direct injected or throw the 7.0 in the Escalades/Nali's for us if/when the 6.2 goes more mainstream.
I read an interesting article in Motortrend, I think is was a story on Glen Beck, and it said GM can build anything, the reason they don't move forward with great stuff is because the laws keep changing, which could nulify any investment, just because some regulator/politician has a bug up his you-know what. American can't take these liberals anymore.

YEAH! RIGHT ON!
Lets just throw Gi-F'ing Gantic motors in everything, surely that will turn around GM!

[XCR440SP]

Originally Posted by rcworker

This is par for the course, as far as GM is concerned. The powers to be in HQ are convinced that American consumers are too unsophisticated to comprehend diesel as a viable fuel in cars and trucks.

Just another case of GM brass telling customers what they want to buy.

To run a business this way is stupid. In my years in retail this is not good for business.

Except that the new emissions laws have about killed the diesels. Talk to owners of new body style Duramaxes and ask them if they're happy with the mileage. You'll find it's so much less than the duramax that they traded in for it that their upset about it (and its all the new diesels, not just Duramax). This is only going to be worse with the next hit in January. That coupled with the high engine price, higher price of diesel fuel and high maintence costs (fuel filters, higher oil quanity, etc), spell doom for the diesel segment. Don't belive me, go talk to salesman at any dealer that sells lots of diesels and ask how well diesels are selling.

For once I think this is GM being ahead of the curve instead of saying "they wanted it 5 years ago so they must still want it" they're looking at actual demand to make this decision.