The Coming Pickup Truck Powertrain Dilemma

[drew630]

Originally Posted by 5.3Avalanche

Yup, $10,615 CDN over the 6.0L to be exact. I just checked it out on www.gm.ca and priced one out.

Its only $7,000 something here, but that price also includes the Allison Transmission which we're guessing won't be on the 4.5L. Because of that, I would say the 4.5L will be in the $3-$4k range over the 5.3L. The 6.0L is only $1k over the 5.3L.

[HoosierRon]

Not that long ago, my brother had an F150 with a straight 6 and 4 on the floor. That was a real truck, not a "lifestyle" vehicle.

Today, Ford could make an F100 (80% the size of an F150) with a direct injection 6 cylinder engine and a 6 speed manual. No premium leather seats, no DVD player for the back seat, no navigation screen or talking interface. If it could tow 6,000 lbs, it would meet the needs of 90% of truck buyers, it would cost under $25,000 and it would get 22 mpg.

[SUPERBADD75]

for most people's "truck needs" a 4 cylinder Ranger would work just fine and get 25 mpg in the process. i'd bet that more than half the people out there in full sized pickups don't need them for all of their capability. GM doesn't need to build a million pickups a year to satisfy the demand for actual work trucks, and in the coming years it's going to show in the marketplace. GM had better figure out how to profit on smaller, more economic vehicles, trucks included. V6s and possibly diesel 4 cylinders will have to be an option.

[jkennedy293]

Originally Posted by tamatt27

I wonder is GM has seriously looked into a DI 6-cyl gas engine for the trucks... Direct Injection is more fuel efficient AND produces more power, why not have a DI V6 take over the roll for the 5.3? Have the DI V6 (gas), 2-mode 5.3 V8 (gas), small diesel, Duramax?

The 3.6L DI that's going into the Lambdas has 290HP. I don't see why this wouldn't work in a 1500 series pick up.

[KingElvis]

Originally Posted by skylark68

The 4.5 diesel will be an interesting choice, but if the price premium is proportional to the Duramax in 3/4 and 1 ton applications why bother, especially as diesel is running about .40 cents a gallon more than gasoline right now?

I'll just stick with getting the Camaro or Challenger and finding an old pickup truck to haul loads in when i need it.

That's a point people forget about old pickups - they haul loads just like the $40K creampuff with the four doors and DVD.

Vintage pickups are a great buy compared to vintage cars too.

[Highlander]

Originally Posted by drew630

Its only $7,000 something here, but that price also includes the Allison Transmission which we're guessing won't be on the 4.5L. Because of that, I would say the 4.5L will be in the $3-$4k range over the 5.3L. The 6.0L is only $1k over the 5.3L.

You can buy one heck of a lot of gas with $4,000!!! The price premium for fuel economy alone is not worth it. If the performance is desired, then that's another story. I'd love a Dmax in my truck, don't get me wrong, but my 6.0 moves my truck just fine even when towing my 8000lb camper.

Two weeks ago, my brother picked up a new 2008 GMC 2500HD SLE for use on his farm, and he to said there was no way he could justify the cost of the Dmax. Especially given that where my truck would get the job done with the older 6.0 and a 4speed tranny, the 08's have the stronger 6.0L and two extra gears to boot over my truck which would certainly get the job done. (and leave an extra $7k in his pocket to pay for a little extra fuel.

[BigAls87Z28]

Originally Posted by skylark68

I'll just stick with getting the Camaro or Challenger and finding an old pickup truck to haul loads in when i need it.

plus





equals

[Michael_S]

Originally Posted by KingElvis

That's a point people forget about old pickups - they haul loads just like the $40K creampuff with the four doors and DVD.

Vintage pickups are a great buy compared to vintage cars too.

I agree. If I really needed a capable work truck, I'd pick up a five or ten year old heavy duty pickup. Even if it breaks a lot, the money I save versus a newer pickup can cover a lot of repairs with plenty left over for diesel (or gasoline).

Originally Posted by jkennedy293

The 3.6L DI that's going into the Lambdas has 290HP. I don't see why this wouldn't work in a 1500 series pick up.

To haul, you want plenty of low end torque from the engine. The 3.6 DI delivers pretty good low end torque for a V6, but nowhere near the smallest 4.8 liter truck V8 GM currently offers.

If the 3.6 DI is good enough for someone's truck, they would probably be fine with a Colorado.

[drew630]

Originally Posted by Highlander

You can buy one heck of a lot of gas with $4,000!!! The price premium for fuel economy alone is not worth it. If the performance is desired, then that's another story. I'd love a Dmax in my truck, don't get me wrong, but my 6.0 moves my truck just fine even when towing my 8000lb camper.

Two weeks ago, my brother picked up a new 2008 GMC 2500HD SLE for use on his farm, and he to said there was no way he could justify the cost of the Dmax. Especially given that where my truck would get the job done with the older 6.0 and a 4speed tranny, the 08's have the stronger 6.0L and two extra gears to boot over my truck which would certainly get the job done. (and leave an extra $7k in his pocket to pay for a little extra fuel.

Well it is just a guess, don't know what the actually cost will be. We should be able to get a better guess once the 6.2L/6-speed becomes available in the 1500's this fall (or do we have pricing on those yet?).

[footney]

I wonder if GM is planning a Hybrid powertain for the Lamda platform.

[CrimsonTider]

I assume that compact P/U's will begin to be more fashionable very soon. I sold my '94 Ranger 1 yr. ago and have regretted it ever since. It was one of the best vehicles I ever owned and could do nearly everything a full-sized truck could do. If GM & Ford would give their offerings the updates they deserve & install nice V6 diesels, I think they would regain their popularity.

[TimR]

I just wish GM would let you order whatever powertrain combo you want without having to move to crewcab or order certain other useless options. Looks like I will have to do the 6.2L/6speed into my Reg Cab on my own.

You're right , I don't need that (because I know some hypocrite do-gooder is gonna point it out ), but people don't need 4000sq/ft houses, boats or personal aircraft either for the most part, doesn't stop them. Some people actually just like trucks!!

[chakis24]

Originally Posted by jkennedy293

The 3.6L DI that's going into the Lambdas has 290HP. I don't see why this wouldn't work in a 1500 series pick up.

because toyotas stock engine is pushing 400, and everyone else has around 330. image. and what are the torque numbers like?

[gardnet1]

What's missing is a two-mode hybrid diesel. That would be a game changer.

[eb110americana]

Originally Posted by jkennedy293

The 2-Mode would probably satisfy the needs of the 90th-percentile non-commercial truck buyers. And I wouldn't call the technology untested. GM has had Two-Mode buses on the road for years, and I guarantee those buses have seen a more rigorous workout than alot of truck buyers could ever put on their trucks.

I did say "relatively untested," as the buses have been around for what, maybe 10 years now? The diesel engine was invented in 1892, so it's been around for 116 years. That's over 10 times the amount of refinement versus a technology that is in its infancy and is still in search of the right batteries. Sure, the buses are great test beds, but their duty cycle and engine are not identical to the trucks. For one, I'm sure they are regularly serviced, where a work truck may live a long life that occasionally neglects service intervals. I'm not saying the 2-mode is an unproven or risky investment, but compared to a diesel or gas engine, it's still being developed and has many more complex parts and systems to potentially fail. The diesel or gas engine would be the safe bet for now.