NASCAR-GM's new "Clean Sheet" R07 Racing Engine may not be ready for prime time

[doh]

http://sports.yahoo.com/nascar/news;...yhoo&type=lgns

LAS VEGAS – GM's new R07 engine may not be ready for prime time.

Introduced last fall, the new engine is the first to be designed specifically for racing by GM. It was touted as the being the successor to the production-based engines that had been used by GM in stock car racing since the mid-1950s.

In using what is referred to as a "clean sheet of paper" while designing the engine, GM's engineers were confident they had addressed the kinds of issues that plagued previous designs, in turn building a race-ready powerplant.

However, the planned rollout of the new engine into Nextel Cup competition, which originally was slated for sometime later this month or in April, has been delayed.


When asked to comment on the delay, GM Racing program manager Pat Suhy said that teams were still testing the new engine and were not yet comfortable with giving up their current engine, the very reliable SB2 – which won its first race when Dale Earnhardt took it to victory lane at the season-opening Daytona 500 in 1998.

Although the new engine has not seen a lap of real competition, teams are able to simulate the stresses of a race weekend on their shop dynamometers, which are used to measure power and durability of engines.

Those tests include running the engines until they are hot, letting them cool down and then heating them up again, which is known as heat cycling.

What teams have found hasn't been all that comforting.

"We've blown at least one of them up," said one senior team member who asked to remain anonymous. He did stress that failures do occur whenever teams work on something totally new.

And, he added, he expects Chevy teams will continue to test the new engine, including on actual race weekends,

"But don't expect it to be under the hood of any championship contender's car – not yet," he said.

Busch's innovative idea

Kyle Busch's assessment of the new, harder Goodyear tires brought to the newly reconfigured and repaved Las Vegas Motor Speedway this weekend painted a clear picture of the challenge faced by the Cup drivers.

"The tires are so hard, it difficult to feel the car on the track," Busch said.

"Until it's too late," he added.

Despite being a native of Las Vegas, Busch isn't fond of the track's new paving. In fact, he has a suggestion for what NASCAR might tell track owners who, in the future, decide to repave their tracks.

"NASCAR should tell the track owner, 'That's OK, we'll come back in three years,' " Busch said, referring to the time it takes for new track surfaces to naturally weather themselves.

Johnson takes to the road

The Nextel Cup trophy on his mantel may say to the world that Jimmie Johnson is the best of the best in stock car racing, but according to the defending champion, there's still room for improvement.

"I just want to be better in road course racing," said Johnson, who has yet to win a NASCAR road course event. His best showing is a fourth-place finish at Watkins Glen (2003) and a start from the pole the following year at the same track.

To help him achieve that goal, Johnson went inside the GM family and secured a ride in a Cadillac CTS-V for the SCCA SPEED World Challenge GT race at Lowe's Motor Speedway on May 24.

The event is a timed, 50-minute race that will take place following qualifying for the Coca-Cola 600 on the track's 1½-mile banked oval, which will be modified to create road racing elements.

Johnson found the feel of the Cadillac quite similar to his Cup car when he tested it at Sebring, Fla.

"I'm hopeful I can learn some tricks and get some more seat time on road courses that will help me in the Cup Series," Johnson said.

As part of his tutelage in the Cadillac, Johnson spent time working with veteran road racer and 2005 World Challenge GT champion Andy Pilgrim, who also tutored Dale Earnhardt prior to the NASCAR legend competing in a Corvette for the 1999 Rolex 24 at Daytona.

"I had a great time, and Andy couldn't have been more help," Johnson said. "He really helped me get up to speed and get used to a track I'd never seen before. And Sebring is really a tough course. When I left there at the end of the day, I was where I needed to be."

The four-door Cadillac sedan, ironically, has the same front splitter and rear wing setup as Johnson's new Cup ride, the Car of Tomorrow. But his focus during the test was more on honing his road course skills and not on the aerodynamics of the car.

However, he did pay close attention to how the engineers set up the chassis on the Cadillac and expects it will be similar to the setup on the Car of Tomorrow.

"The adjustments we made on the car … was mainly shock stuff," Johnson said. "And I think that's going to apply even with our racing because you know where the splitter needs to be and that's as low as possible and then you want maximum rear grip so you tilt the wing up as much as the sanctioning body will give you.

"So, it was interesting to be out there and see how close the CTS-V was to a Cup car. It's very similar."

In the garage

[camaro_freak]

doesn't matter.. these cars have NOTHING to do with the so called counterparts in the real world....

NASCAR might as well make them all the same and let them run like the IROC. Then it would truely be up to the driver to win the race and not some rule that can be broken or bent ...

[Havasavana]

I've never worked in engine development, but have done development in other areas, and don't understand teams running into very predictable issues like heat cycling. Surely testing was done to the extent to show such problems before handing it off to teams.

[SDRacing]

Originally Posted by camaro_freak

doesn't matter.. these cars have NOTHING to do with the so called counterparts in the real world....

NASCAR might as well make them all the same and let them run like the IROC. Then it would truely be up to the driver to win the race and not some rule that can be broken or bent ...

ah yes, let the nascar bashing begin. geez, i dont know why "nascar" threads are started here anymore since several of you have nothing better to do but to come in and post negative comments. it is a motorsport, and gm chooses to be in it, so get over it. 100,000 plus fans at every race must say something, and no, thats not just a huge redneck revival or something.

if you are a "true" motorsport/racing fan, or if you are involved in motorsports, then you could appreciate nascar. it stands reason for drivers from other motorsports trying to get into nascar.

[327]

Originally Posted by camaro_freak

doesn't matter.. these cars have NOTHING to do with the so called counterparts in the real world....

NASCAR might as well make them all the same and let them run like the IROC. Then it would truely be up to the driver to win the race and not some rule that can be broken or bent ...

done, and done. Except some sheetmetal matching points like the production cars here and there. And the engines that are designed from the OEMs. Thats all they have.. This new engine BTW is basically a LS engine. with some racing parts.

How many times do you people have to say they have nothing to do with factory stock cars? WE KNOW!!! They havent really been since the mid 60s.

No ones trying to hide it, They never have, never will

[jbernie]

Interesting reading, I wonder if GM will go to some of the more also-ran Chevy Nascar teams and offer them some insentives to run with the engine for a few races. Get some true realworld racing done on the engine with teams who won't lose a championship if an engine fails.

[sprchev1]

Originally Posted by Havasavana

I've never worked in engine development, but have done development in other areas, and don't understand teams running into very predictable issues like heat cycling. Surely testing was done to the extent to show such problems before handing it off to teams.

They didn't say that the heat cycling is what caused the failure. Testing on a dyno can mean redline RPM's until it blows up just to see how long it would take. 500 miles going from idle to max RPM all day long and back will put a whoopin' on anyones stuff.

[wnsfmike]

Originally Posted by 327

done, and done. Except some sheetmetal matching points like the production cars here and there. And the engines that are designed from the OEMs. Thats all they have.. This new engine BTW is basically a LS engine. with some racing parts.

How many times do you people have to say they have nothing to do with factory stock cars? WE KNOW!!! They havent really been since the mid 60s.

No ones trying to hide it, They never have, never will

That would be really nice if everything bolted to a LSX engine. They make it sound like it's a one off motor, something that no one but a Nascar team would have any use for.

[327]

Originally Posted by wnsfmike

That would be really nice if everything bolted to a LSX engine. They make it sound like it's a one off motor, something that no one but a Nascar team would have any use for.

just wait till the end of this season or the next and go to ebay


It is built purposely for nascar.

Here from jayski.com it says



New GM Racing Engine to Power Chevy in Cup in 2007: It's all change for Team Chevy in the NASCAR Nextel Cup Series in 2007. In addition to the scheduled introduction of the Impala SS Car of Tomorrow in March, GM Racing is introducing a new small-block V-8 racing engine that was specifically designed for NASCAR competition. The new powerplant - designated R07 - has been approved by NASCAR for competition in 2007. Chevrolet teams are expected to begin the transition from the current SB2 (Small-Block/2nd Generation) engine to the new R07 in March. Work on a successor to the SB2 began shortly after the SB2's introduction in NASCAR competition in 1998. The R07 retains the pushrod/two-valve layout that has been the mainstay of American motorsports since the introduction of the first-generation GM small-block V-8 in 1955. It is a highly advanced racing engine that meets NASCAR's specifications. Per NASCAR regulations, the R07 displaces a maximum of 358 cubic inches. In contrast to the SB2's "mirror port" cylinder heads, the R07's cylinder heads resemble production LS-series small-block cylinder heads with alternating intake and exhaust valves. While production small-block V-8 engines employ electronic fuel injection, the R07 port layout is optimized for the single four-barrel carburetor mandated by NASCAR. The R07's key technical advances over the SB2 include 4.500-inch cylinder bore centers (vs. 4.400 inches in SB2), a raised camshaft that improves valvetrain dynamics, a new six-bolt head bolt pattern that reduces cylinder bore distortion, and a targeted cooling system that minimizes temperatures at critical locations. A cast camshaft tunnel, integral piston squirter galleries, and overhead oil feed galleries reduce engine assembly time. Relocating the fuel pump to the inboard side of the car and eliminating external oil and coolant lines enhance safety. Although the R07 is a purpose-built racing engine, it has strong ties to production powerplants. "The concepts and processes that are used to improve the performance of our racing engines is shared with the production engine designers to improve the efficiency of our production engines," said Tom Stephens, group vice president of GM Powertrain.(GM Racing PR)(2-15-2007)




also see the LS364 4bbl carburated engine recently introduced. GMperformanceparts.com

[wnsfmike]

New Chevy Engine: NASCAR tentatively approved the new R99 engine General Motors wants to use in the Craftsman Truck Series next year. The R99 is expected to generate more horsepower than the current SB2 engine, but GM is more focused on durability. The R99 has larger camshafts and more bore spacing that is similar to the engine Dodge uses now and that Toyota will run in 2004. If the R99 performs well, GM will push to use it in Winston Cup races in 2005, but NASCAR isn't likely to grant approval before Toyota joins the Cup series (Jayski 2003)
I bet one of these are pretty cheap.

[GotAWD]

Originally Posted by SDRacing

ah yes, let the nascar bashing begin. geez, i dont know why "nascar" threads are started here anymore since several of you have nothing better to do but to come in and post negative comments. it is a motorsport, and gm chooses to be in it, so get over it. 100,000 plus fans at every race must say something, and no, thats not just a huge redneck revival or something.

if you are a "true" motorsport/racing fan, or if you are involved in motorsports, then you could appreciate nascar. it stands reason for drivers from other motorsports trying to get into nascar.

look ill be honest, im not a fan like i once was. but the only R&D that i see coming from NASCAR is the engine. as to how it gets its fuel wether FI or carb dosent really bother me. since the heads, pistons, and the rest of the internals of the engine will benefits from punishing 500miles of 7000RPMS. but besides that im like the rest of these guys that dont like nascar because of its Stock to not so stock availability of the cars. thats all i have to say.

i do believe the LSX seires of engines had its start here in nascar did it not?

[redimpss5]

Hmmm, NASCAR and tech? Kind of a oxymoron.

[doh]

Originally Posted by GotAWD

look ill be honest, im not a fan like i once was. but the only R&D that i see coming from NASCAR is the engine. as to how it gets its fuel wether FI or carb dosent really bother me. since the heads, pistons, and the rest of the internals of the engine will benefits from punishing 500miles of 7000RPMS. but besides that im like the rest of these guys that dont like nascar because of its Stock to not so stock availability of the cars. thats all i have to say.

i do believe the LSX seires of engines had its start here in nascar did it not?

500 miles at up to 9200+ Peak RPM, simply amazing for a push rod, V engine.

[bone]

I believe there is nothing wrong with SB2 engines. The current engine is running so well,GM is looking for excuses to continue racing with it.

[327]

Originally Posted by bone

I believe there is nothing wrong with SB2 engines. The current engine is running so well,GM is looking for excuses to continue racing with it.

actually its the oldest one of the nascar group and theyve been working on this new one for a couple years now.